Mpeg4 Part10 Level 3.0 & Aac-he Audio

[Griga]

Just some codec doesn't solve the problem. A DirectShow decoder is required for DVB applications.

[Derrick]

Just some codec doesn't solve the problem. A DirectShow decoder is required for DVB applications.

Is directshow a synonym for DVB? I don't think so

[Griga]

Is directshow a synonym for DVB? I don't think so

BDA is DirectShow based, as you might know. DVBViewer does it a bit differently, but usually (as intended by Microsoft) the BDA filter graph and the playback filter graph are one.

[Derrick]

yes, I know but I ment the correspondence between directshow and dvb. I would agree I you had said directshow <-> ms_tv_applications.

[RedAngel]

Hi again,

 

For some reason I'm not able to get video anymore either. It looks like they've changed something... (Unless I've missed something...)

I've made a full transponder dump here if anyone is interested.

 

http://www.sendspace.com/file/qe74x8

 

 

Take care!

[Griga]

Strange. None of the decoders here is able to handle the video. Only Moonlight / MainConcept show a recognizable picture, before they crash

 

Finding out what they changed requires an old sample. Have you still got one? No need to upload it - use the H.264 Param Reader from the members area -> tools section and post / attach the output.

[sejone]

Norway's DVB-T Selects Audio Compression Technology from Coding Technologies

 

http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2007/04/17/2525837.htm

http://www.codingtechnologies.com./news/as...rwayDVB_eng.pdf

Edited June 13, 2007 by sejone

[Bobben]

Not really

 

I found two Asian MPEG2/AAC samples in the web:

 

http://mediapix-australia.com/htpc/Sample%...Sample.0000.zip

http://pbx.mine.nu/dvhs/sample.ts

 

and my experimental TSPlayer & DVBSource & MainConcept AAC Decoder set-up plays them quite happily, but the files contain "classical" ADTS AAC, in contrast to the Norwegian AAC, that most likely is

as the specs say.

 

Then I contacted a company that is busy with DVB-H at the moment, thus having to deal with AAC, but they didn't find a way to play the Norwegian stuff either (using Cyberlink equipment). However, they will have to find a way, because they are selling DVB-T devices to Norway. So I suppose something will be happening there sooner or later, and they promised to let me know.

 

AAC is slowly emerging in the DVB sphere... Euro1080 HD5 on Astra 23° East, 10842 V started to broadcast an AAC audio stream - same stream type in the PMT as the Norwegian one. To my surprise, MainConcept AAC seems to decode it, because it delivers samples to the audio renderer, but I don't know for sure yet, because I get nothing but silence

 

Anyway - I will stay tuned to it (not only Euro1080 HD5 ), and I think it's just a question of time...

 

You might have seen this already.

DVB has specified that all AAC audio shall be sendt with LOAS/LATM syntax.

http://www.dvb.org/technology/bluebooks/a0...1154.v1.8.1.pdf

 

 

4.1.6.1 stream_id and stream_type
Encoding: Elementary streams shall be identified by stream_id and stream_type in accordance with
ITU-T Recommendation H.222.0 | ISO/IEC 13818-1 [1], tables 2-18 and 2-29.
For VC-1 Bitstreams, the following applies:
Encoding: Elementary streams shall be identified by stream_id (with the extension mechanism) and
stream_type in accordance with SMPTE RP 227 [22].
NOTE: For VC-1 Bitstreams, the value of stream_type shall be set to 0xEA.
Decoding: IRDs shall be able to accept bitstreams which contain these encoded values.
For MPEG-4 AAC, MPEG-4 HE AAC and MPEG-4 HE-AAC v2 audio streams, the following applies:
Encoding: The value of the stream_id field for LATM/LOAS formatted MPEG-4 AAC, MPEG-4 HE AAC and
MPEG-4 HE AAC v2 packetized elementary streams shall be 110x xxxx, where each x can be
either 0, or 1. The value of stream_type for MPEG-4 AAC, MPEG-4 HE AAC and MPEG-4 HE
AAC v2 packetized elementary streams shall be 0x11 (indicating ISO/IEC 14496-3 [17] Audio
with the LATM transport syntax).
Decoding: This field shall be read by the IRD, and the IRD shall interpret this field in accordance with
MPEG systems syntax.

 

6.4.1 LATM/LOAS formatting
The MPEG-4 HE AAC or HE AAC v2 elementary stream data shall be first encapsulated in the LATM multiplex format
according to ISO/IEC 14496-3 [17]. The AudioMuxElement() multiplex element format shall be used.
DVB BlueBook A001 Rev. 7
68
The LATM formatted MPEG-4 HE AAC or HE AAC v2 elementary stream data shall be encapsulated in the LOAS
transmission format according to ISO/IEC 14496-3 [17]. The AudioSyncStream() version shall be used.
AudioSyncStream() adds a sync word to the audio stream to allow for synchronization.Semantics: The semantics of the
AudioMuxElement() and AudioSyncStream() formatting are described in ISO/IEC 14496-3 [17].
Encoding: The MPEG-4 HE AAC and HE AAC v2 elementary streams shall be formatted with
AudioMuxElement() LATM multiplex format, and AudioSyncStream() LOAS transmission
format.
The following limitations to the LATM multiplex shall apply;
numLayer shall be "0", as no scalable profile is used;
numProgram shall be "0", as there is only one audio program per LATM multiplex;
numSubFrames shall be "0", as there is only one PayloadMux() (access unit) per LATM
AudioMuxElement();
allStreamsSameTimeFraming shall be "1", as all payloads belong to the same access
unit.
Decoding: These formats shall be read by the IRD, and the IRD shall interpret these formats in accordance
with MPEG-4 audio syntax.

Edited June 16, 2007 by Bobben

[Griga]

Is it still impossible to decode the H.264 stream, or does the provider just try this and that?

[Griga]

For some reason I'm not able to get video anymore either. It looks like they've changed something...

The MainConcept AVC/H.264 Video Decoder 3.0.7299 can cope with it. It is part of this package:

 

http://www.elecard.com/ftp/pub/AVC/EAVCStr...gPlugIn_WMP.zip

 

It may be necessary to register mcavcvd.ax manually.

[trygve]

I haven't tried watching the trials in a few months. When I tried today the Cyberlink H.264 codec worked fine, so they might have changed whatever they did back again.

 

Has HE-AAC support gotten any closer?

[Griga]

Adding the support in DVBViewer will not be such a big thing. Some of the work is already done. However, everything still depends on a suitable DirectShow audio decoder. I'm in contact with a company that is able to do the coding. They seemed to be interested in doing it (and selling it, of course), and I provided them with all available information, after RedAngel provided me . So we have to wait what's coming...

[sveinan]

Hi. I'm also from Norway and trying out the DVB-T broadcasting. Got the video up and running after looking at this board. So thanks for that. Now over to the elusive HE AAC audio. I had a look at the following product 3ivx MPEG-4 5.0. It says it supports HE AAC. When installed it has a DirectShow filter called:

- 3ivx MPEG-4 Audio Decoder

- CLSID: {68D0B5CF-3EC6-4113-86DF-8A34456B3A0C}

But it does not show up in DVBViewer as a choice under MPEG Audio Decoder. I'm not an expert on all this DirectShow filters and so on. Should this be possible to work ? Must DVBViewer hardcode what filters it support ? Any help is appreciated.

[CiNcH]

The decoder selection within DVBViewer is for MPEG layer II audio only.

[sveinan]

Thx for quick reply. At least explains the logic.

[Klaus_1250]

@sveinan: You could try capturing the TS-stream for a while (through Transedit or DVBViewer) and see if it plays back the audio with the 3ivx-codec in MPC.

[sveinan]

@Klaus_1250

 

Thanks for the suggestion. This is more of an experiment for me. Have demux'ed the stream to separate HE AAC file, it works in WinAmp. But its getting the real-time watching to work that is important. I'll wait and see if any solution gets support to pipe the HE AAC sound through to a decoder. Must come in the end. For the moment I'm using DVB-C as my main source for video. And that is working. Also starting to experiment with HD (H.264) there too. At least the audio is not HE AAC

[sveinan]

Link to a news release about an audio test in EBU:

 

Coding Technologies' MPEG-4 aacPlus Confirmed Clear Winner in European Broadcasting Union Multi-Channel Listening Test

 

Looks like aacPlus (HE AAC) was the winner. Although it does not state any actual implementation because of it. Just hoping this HE AAC ball gets rolling soon.

[bolsen]

Any progress with the audio support? There's less than two weeks left to the launch of the Norwegian DTT net..

[hanskongen]

Hello everybody here, just wanted to say thank you for all the work you guys have put in this an that I hope you will have workin sollution soon.

 

If there is anything I can help with, let me know.

 

And by the way, I am willing to buy a working sollution...

[wiak]

Hello everybody here, just wanted to say thank you for all the work you guys have put in this an that I hope you will have workin sollution soon.

 

If there is anything I can help with, let me know.

 

And by the way, I am willing to buy a working sollution...

same here

Edited September 6, 2007 by wiak

[wiak]

Not really

 

I found two Asian MPEG2/AAC samples in the web:

 

http://mediapix-australia.com/htpc/Sample%...Sample.0000.zip

http://pbx.mine.nu/dvhs/sample.ts

 

and my experimental TSPlayer & DVBSource & MainConcept AAC Decoder set-up plays them quite happily, but the files contain "classical" ADTS AAC, in contrast to the Norwegian AAC, that most likely is

as the specs say.

 

Then I contacted a company that is busy with DVB-H at the moment, thus having to deal with AAC, but they didn't find a way to play the Norwegian stuff either (using Cyberlink equipment). However, they will have to find a way, because they are selling DVB-T devices to Norway. So I suppose something will be happening there sooner or later, and they promised to let me know.

 

AAC is slowly emerging in the DVB sphere... Euro1080 HD5 on Astra 23° East, 10842 V started to broadcast an AAC audio stream - same stream type in the PMT as the Norwegian one. To my surprise, MainConcept AAC seems to decode it, because it delivers samples to the audio renderer, but I don't know for sure yet, because I get nothing but silence

 

Anyway - I will stay tuned to it (not only Euro1080 HD5 ), and I think it's just a question of time...

meybe the samples are of testing, so meybe the last revision of the steam is diffrent

redangel can you post new samples, or someone else that has digital tv where they have open the new DVB-T senders?

i can gladly post some samples in november when they upgrade the sender, i can see from my living room

[RedAngel]

Has anyone tried this? http://www.orban.com/plugin/

 

BTW: I'm not able to get picture at the moment using Cyberlink h264 codec.

Don't know why... What kind of dump do you guys want? Audio only/single pid/full transponder?

I just tried to capture some audio. dgindex will demux the aac-he audio from the ts. And WinAMP still plays it.

So... nothing has changed. Is anyone able to decode the video any more?

[Griga]

I'm not able to get picture at the moment using Cyberlink h264 codec.

http://www.DVBViewer.info/forum/index.php?...st&p=142716

 

Has anyone tried this? http://www.orban.com/plugin/

Yes. WMP plugin. DirectShow filter, but not usable for DVBViewer. Refuses to cooperate with other software.

[RedAngel]

My bad, found the problem now. I've messed up my codecs. The MainConcept H.264 decoder works with the broadcast.

The audio problem is still the same. I can provide new captures, but I really don't see the point. Nothing has changed.

As long as we don't have a codec for AAC-HE with LOAS/LATM support then there's nothing much we can do...

[jossi]

Any news?

 

When do we get audio?

[Griga]

We are getting on... at least file playback is working pretty well with an internal TSPlayer and DVBViewer GE beta version, video and audio. The next step will be TV/radio tests. Sorry, at the moment I can't say more about it, due to a NDA.

 

So please stay tuned ... public availability or additional requirements for beta tests in Norway will be announced here.

[ghostman.no]

We are getting on... at least file playback is working pretty well with an internal TSPlayer and DVBViewer GE beta version, video and audio. The next step will be TV/radio tests. Sorry, at the moment I can't say more about it, due to a NDA.

 

So please stay tuned ... public availability or additional requirements for beta tests in Norway will be announced here.

 

Hi Griga, great work I have a Hauppauge HVR-4000 this card got it all DVB-S/S2 and DVB-T and analog kinda cool tuner card hope DVBViewer Pro will be able to play the HE-AAC sound soon. Then DVBViewer would be a great software for this card. Hauppauge software is very poor :-|

[sveinan]

Thanks for the info Griga That is very good news. Looking forward to testing it out. Don't stress, most important thing for us in Norway is that something is in progress. You won't miss any beta testers for this though

[RedAngel]

Thanks for the info Griga That is very good news. Looking forward to testing it out. Don't stress, most important thing for us in Norway is that something is in progress. You won't miss any beta testers for this though

 

Video AND Audio playback is now working for live streams as well

Griga will enlighten you all later.

 

[Griga]

Yes, things look good... TV & radio didn't work at first go, but we had a kind of breakthrough last night

 

However, there is still some work to do. I've implemented the AAC support in internal TSPlayer, TransEdit and DVBViewer GE beta versions, and now the whole proceeding has to be documented for the DVBViewer Pro developers. It will be their task to make CI and DVB subtitle support available to Norwegian DVB-T viewers.

 

Additionally some businessmen have to do their homework now. As you already might have read between the lines, there is another company involved in this matter. The conditions under which the necessary components will be available have yet to be clarified.

[ghostman.no]

tnx Griga for the update on this.

 

This is great news

Edited October 26, 2007 by ghostman.no

[BodoG]

Yes, great news, big anticipation!

[caid]

Do you need more beta testers in Norway? Send me a pm. (I have also purchased the full version)

 

My HTPC:

Tv card: Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-4000

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6550

Ram: 2048 mb

Graphic card: Ati Radeon HD2400

[hackbart]

Well thanks for the offer but it looks like that it works. The biggest problem you might have is not that the DVBViewer wont work, it is that there is just only mpeg decoder available which deals with the stream. Anyway the next update of the DVBViewer will have the same support for AAC like the internal beta of Griga's GE. We just have to test a few things first before publishing it, because i had to change a lot of internal code and even if i documented my steps side effects can appear which has to be tested first.

 

Christian

[CiNcH]

The biggest problem you might have is not that the DVBViewer wont work, it is that there is just only mpeg decoder available which deals with the stream.

So who is delivering or will deliver this decoder?

[hackbart]

Well we can not deliver one, but all i can say is that we will think about an affordable solution.

 

Christian

[digidigi]

Well we can not deliver one, but all i can say is that we will think about an affordable solution.

 

Christian

 

This is great news for us in Norway,

I'm sure you will get alot of new norwegian users when you are ready to release it.

...sign me up

 

Thanks,

Digi

[Radioten]

This is great news for us in Norway,

I'm sure you will get alot of new norwegian users when you are ready to release it.

...sign me up

 

Thanks,

Digi

 

 

Yepp.. I'm waiting also. I got this msg from Christian Hackbart when I asked for DVB-T support for Norway:

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

 

not yet but we are working together with mainconcept in order to get it running. You might have a look in our forum to see the progress of this problem. I think within the next 4 weeks we will be able to have a DVBViewer which is capable to deal with AAC+.

 

Regards

Christian Hackbart

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Lars_MQ]

well lets put it this way: the viewer is able to handle this aac. But there will be no codec which is able to handle this.