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Spidey

I wish to record what I am looking at

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Spidey

I come from MyTheatre, I use this software since I built my HTPC two years ago.

Now I'm trying to upgrade my config to DVB-S2 in order to get the HD channels my sat provider offers.

Since MyTheatre does not have support for H264, I am trying other DVB software.

 

I think DVBViewer is a good challenger. It is better than MyTheatre in many points.

But there is one important feature MyTheatre have, and DVBViewer do not :

 

Suppose you are watching something at TV and there is a short magic scene you want to capture. When you decide to do it, it is almost too late. So you move the timeshift slide to the left to have the playback just before the biginning of the magic scene, then you press the record button to start the capture.

In MyTheatre you really record what you are looking at, the magic scene.

In DVBViewer the only thing you get is the live broadcast.

 

So the feature I request is the ability for DVDViewer to interactively record a scene from a temporary timeshift file, like MyTheatre.

Edited by Spidey

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bergh

Hello !

I am not 100% sure that I understand your request, hence:

- You can Timeshift and you can keep timeshift data.

- There is a Record button.

 

Or do you are looking to a butto with the ability to go back in time and record that to a special/separate file?

(Well back in time with permanent timeshit schould not be that problem.)

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Spidey
Hello !

I am not 100% sure that I understand your request, hence:

- You can Timeshift and you can keep timeshift data.

- There is a Record button.

 

Or do you are looking to a butto with the ability to go back in time and record that to a special/separate file?

(Well back in time with permanent timeshit schould not be that problem.)

 

Hello Bergh,

 

Thank you for your answer.

 

I am french, I live in Guadeloupe, my english is poor, maybe the reason why you don't understand my request.

 

I wish DVBViewer have the same behavior as MyTheatre when I push the record button : I want it to record exactly what I am watching, even if what I am watching is already something recorded by the timeshift feature. For the moment, I make many tests, DVBViewer can only record the live broadcast. Instead, with MyTheatre, not only the live broadcast keep recorded in order to have the timeshift feature correctly working, but you do get an other movie file with the scene you were playing back.

 

That seem to be what you say in your post, the ability to go back in time and record that in a separate file, but with the same record button, not a special record button.

 

Is that more clear ?

Edited by Spidey

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bigaluk
I am french, I live in Guadeloupe, my english is poor, maybe the reason why you don't understand my request.

 

I am English and live in the UK - Your English is excellent, I understand perfectly, ... and I too would love it if pressing RECORD during timeshift created a seperate (extracted and then continued) file in the Recordings folder. It would simply be more intuitive.

 

If you have an mpeg editor, you can edit the timeshift file (just don't let DVBViewer automatically delete it - see optons). This is what was being suggested.

 

But the whole point of having TV software is to make TV watching and recording simple - so I agree with and support your feature request whole-heartedly.

 

I simply cannot see a situation where pressing RECORD during timeshifted playback would occur in practice with the user's implicit understanding that what is being recorded might be completely different from what they are watching.

 

It isn't even obvious that timeshifting is taking place: for example, I leave the room, someone else presses pause and then later releases it. I then re-enter the room and press record. Nothing tells me that what I'm recording has nothing to do with what I'm watching.

 

Conversely, I can't imaging a situation where I press pause, go make a coffee, come back, and then release pause, and then later decide "what the heck I will press record now so that I can watch what happens in five minutes time later". With the way it presently works, it just wouldn't occur to me that pressing record at that point would be beneficial in any way - so it might as well not exist when in timeshift unless it did behave the way we are suggesting.

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bigaluk

However, if you accept that WYSIWYG recording in timeshift (now there's a phrase we could coin) makes more sense than the present mechanism, you are faced with a problem of the algorithm required to manage "monkey users".

 

... what happens if in timeshift I press record at point A, but then REWIND and press record at point B (earlier than point A), and then perhaps go FORWARD to point C which lies beyond point A and press record again ... hmmm.

 

The present action of two successive presses of record is to first start and then stop recording. If that rule continued then in theory (and intuitively) you should get a short halted recording from point A and an ongoing recording from C (i.e. nothing from B ).

 

However, perhaps the intention of the user is to actually restart the recording from B and end it at C. This would mean pressing record twice at B (once to cancel and once to restart) and then once at C (stopping the recording and creating the extracted file).

 

So far so good. Aside from the fact that we also have generated a short aborted recording from A.

 

But what if I now change my mind and want to extend the recording to an even later point D ... say it was because after an advertising break I realised that the programme hadn't quite finished. This is not as daft as it sounds, because after all I didn't watch the bit between B and C. Would it now be as intuitive to have to go back to B and start the recording again? Or would we now start to prefer a different algorithm?

 

As quoted by another forum correspondent:

 

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."

Douglas Adams

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Spidey

Bigaluk, I'm glad to see that WYSIWYG recording in timeshift is a feature you also want to see in DVBViewer.

In fact, I've been using this ability of MyTheatre so many times that I simply can't replace it by DVBViewer at the moment. No matter if I can't watch HD channels in MyTheatre. I symply can't understand how DVBViewer timeshisft behavior satisfies its users and why there are not more users like you and me concerned by such a logical feature.

 

Well, I am not asking DVBViewer to become a video editing software, and no matter if it is impossible to move the time cursor during a recording.

MyTheatre do let you move the time cursor during a recording, but as it records at 1x speed, you just loose the record position. However I have had to use this ability some times. For example when I watch a TV show and I realise 20 minutes later that it could interest my wife or my children so I decide to record it from the bigining, but I don't want to have to watch these 20 minutes again. But when the live show ends, I have to wait 20 minutes again before I press the rec button if I want a complete file.

 

What you describe in your last post seems to look like video editing. Moving the time cursor during the recording seems to deal with what you want to have in the resulting file. In my point of view, moving the time cursor during the recording only deal with what I want to watch. The life of the recording keeps going on, wherever I move this cursor.

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Spidey
i requested this many moons ago (http://www.DVBViewer.info/forum/index.php?showtopic=15067) but had no interest ;) i hope hackbart considers adding this functionality at some point!

Hello E_p,

We are now 3 members concerned by this fonctionality. Hope other members will find an interest too, and our request will be handled.

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Lars_MQ

Unlikely, it has been discussed several times and there are no plans and intentions to integrate this. Use keep timeshift file.

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David.P
Hello E_p,

We are now 3 members concerned by this fonctionality. Hope other members will find an interest too, and our request will be handled.

One more vote for this feature.

 

The proposed solution ("use the timeshift file, stu*id") is kind of like 'for engineers only', whereas the proposed feature ("record what I'm looking at") is of course what everyone else would expect (from a program with supposedly high WAF).

 

Cheers David.P

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Kuni
One more vote for this feature.

 

The proposed solution ("use the timeshift file, stu*id") is kind of like 'for engineers only', whereas the proposed feature ("record what I'm looking at") is of course what everyone else would expect (from a program with supposedly high WAF).

 

Cheers David.P

 

 

 

Another vote!

 

Makes sense to me.

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thekitehunter

Hi, I came from a Topfield pvr for the Freesat HD. DVBViewer is the best alternative I've found.

The Topfield (via the MyStuff plugin) has a 2 hour buffer and when I press record therre's a popup with two boxes (up/down to select which one) with two questions:

a ) Start recording, toggles between: from now/from the start of this program/from start of buffer

b ) End recording, toggles between: end of this program/ next program/program after that etc where the actual program names are shown).

I do miss this simple funtionality... so one more vote here.

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Antonis
Hi, I came from a Topfield pvr for the Freesat HD. DVBViewer is the best alternative I've found.

The Topfield (via the MyStuff plugin) has a 2 hour buffer and when I press record therre's a popup with two boxes (up/down to select which one) with two questions:

a ) Start recording, toggles between: from now/from the start of this program/from start of buffer

b ) End recording, toggles between: end of this program/ next program/program after that etc where the actual program names are shown).

I do miss this simple funtionality... so one more vote here.

 

 

the way the topfield pvr handles it sounds perfect. +1 vote to get the same in DVBViewer

 

antonis

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Mikkel Pilehave Jensen

I to come from a "real" PVR, Humax PVR9200T which also has a WYSIWYG recorder. So also a vote from me to change the stupid way that recording in timeshift currently works. It just doesn't make sense the way it works now.

 

A lot of the time, I pause a program that may (or may not) be interesting, then rewind and record the whole thing from the point that the timeshift buffer kicked in (which is 2 hrs. or when i changed the channel).

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Griga
the stupid way that recording in timeshift currently works

From your very limited point of view it may seem so. Obviously you are not aware of the pros and cons of different designs.

 

The DVBViewer recorder engine has been designed to work as independently from playback as possible, in order to be able to record x different channels from y DVB devices at the same time, everything silently in the background with a minimum of CPU usage, if desired, or while DVBViewer is playing MP3s, a DVD or whatever.

 

If you don't need that, simply stay with your Humax and be happy.

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Mikkel Pilehave Jensen
From your very limited point of view it may seem so. Obviously you are not aware of the pros and cons of different designs.

 

The DVBViewer recorder engine has been designed to work as independently from playback as possible, in order to be able to record x different channels from y DVB devices at the same time, everything silently in the background with a minimum of CPU usage, if desired, or while DVBViewer is playing MP3s, a DVD or whatever.

 

If you don't need that, simply stay with your Humax and be happy.

 

My Humax PVR can record 3 different things while watching a fourth (on same transponder). As I recall, the Topfield can do the same. If you ever tried a "real" PVR you would know the great advantages of recording what you see.

 

Why would you start recording a show, that has been paused for say, 30 minutes, if you were not to record the 30 minutes? In DVBViewer there is no way to record those timeshifted 30 minutes. So, if your sister says hey, come see me on national TV and unfortunately has timeshifted 5 minutes, there goes your recording down the toilet. But hey, i can record the next boring newsstory :(

 

Oh...i almost forgot. My Humax has a CPU in the 400 Mhz area and like 8 MB RAM. My dualcore Pentium is 2 x 2200 MHz with 4 MB cache and 3 GB RAM. I think it can cope with the I/O ;)

Edited by Mikkel Pilehave Jensen

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atramhasis

I always missed this recording feature in DVBV and the answer, that it is to much to do for the CPU and HD is simply outdated!

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Griga
and the answer, that it is to much to do for the CPU and HD is simply outdated!

That's not the point. It would require a recorder engine with a different design and a different behaviour than the existing one - much more tied to playback. Apart from the work that would be necessary to create and integrate this new engine and all the trouble in the UI resulting from it, users and developers would have to deal with two recorder types, which would be even more confusing than DVBViewer is already now.

 

Sometimes you have to make a decision, because you can't integrate everything in a single application without pushing complexity to an unhealthy grade. We made our decision.

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atramhasis

Griga, you are such a good programmer, that you would find a solution.

But OK, so for people that are intelligent there could be a complicated plugin to do this! Would you please try to do it as a plugin? It can be really complicated to setup but at leat it shouls work. And as a plugin it will not crash the core!

There is e.g. a plugin for Media Center: http://www.mce-community.de/forum/index.ph...st&p=117180

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Lars_MQ

Oh yeah nice. You don't need such a plugin, simply select keep timeshift file, it does the same. :biggrin:

 

und den Buffer (und die darin befindliche Szene) sichern. Wenn die Sicherung beendet ist kann man sich mit anderen Tools die gewünschte Szene dann bequem aus dem gesicherten Buffer rausschneiden.

 

und zweitens wird der Timeshift-Buffer gesichert, so dass man auch den Anfang der Sendung (sofern er sich im Buffer befindet) "sicher hat". Ideal ist das sicherlich nicht, weil dann die zwei Teile der Sendung ja in getrennten Aufzeichnungen vorliegen, aber es ist schonmal besser als nichts - und Tools zum Zusammenfügen der beiden Teile gibt's ja (und zum Rausschneiden unbenötigter Teile am Anfang des Timeshift-Buffers).

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atramhasis
... it does the same. :robot:

 

No, it doesn't. Your citations show, how complicated it is to do it manually. Usability is very important for 90% of men and 99,9% of women. I hope you want to make the best software for most of the people, not just for geeks. If you need help in usability, just ask, there are some people here. It's OK, you don't have to do everything, you can code well. But you can see it as help, when others post suggestions, not as an attac.

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atramhasis
...simply select keep timeshift file...

 

Rigt, it's simple, but I can't code. so to do this plugin you can use this build-in functionality. Then you can do this:

1. When Rec pressed:ask "Record this program" or "Start manual recordig"

2. If program: "keep timeshift file"

3. wait until program ends

4. cut the TS file

5. rename and move the recording

6. delete garbage

 

Who can code this?

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EnzoF1
From your very limited point of view it may seem so. Obviously you are not aware of the pros and cons of different designs.

 

The DVBViewer recorder engine has been designed to work as independently from playback as possible, in order to be able to record x different channels from y DVB devices at the same time, everything silently in the background with a minimum of CPU usage, if desired, or while DVBViewer is playing MP3s, a DVD or whatever.

 

If you don't need that, simply stay with your Humax and be happy.

I think it's just a matter of adjusting. I come from MyTheatre as well after using it for two years. Once I got my HD channels, I decided to look around for capture software that could deal with H.264 TS streams without putting too much load on my system. DVBViewer is a lot more than I was looking for and it did take me a while to adjust to the many configurations this piece of software has. I liked the WYSIWYG recorder function of MyTheatre as well and kinda missed it on DVBViewer. But look at it differently, if you're capturing stuff using a virtual recorder, you're planning to do something with those captures. Thus editing is part of the process and you have the software installed to do exactly that. It won't take a whole lot of time to cut the bit you want to keep out of the timeshift file. And you won't have to scroll back in the timeline to push the record button, as the timeshift records the entire session anyways....

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amirhs
I wish DVBViewer have the same behavior as MyTheatre when I push the record button : I want it to record exactly what I am watching, even if what I am watching is already something recorded by the timeshift feature. For the moment, I make many tests, DVBViewer can only record the live broadcast. Instead, with MyTheatre, not only the live broadcast keep recorded in order to have the timeshift feature correctly working, but you do get an other movie file with the scene you were playing back.

Despite being a latecomer, I'm also a big fan of this proposed feature. I love DVBViewer, but even ProgDVB offers such a feature.

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rfk

Hrm, I'd also love to see this feature! I was watching TV in timeshift this week and tried to record a following movie - unfortunately on the next day I found the record to begin in the middle of the movie. B) By the way, as I am operating DVBViewer with a remote control only coping with the timeshift file is not really an option...

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uglyned

I'd like this feature too. But as with everything else, it's important for me that it's accessible from the OSD as DVBViewer is my media centre and I use a remote control not a mouse.

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MattHeys

I haven't read all the replies yet but this feature does make sense.

 

I would expect that if you press record whilst timeshifted it does one of the following.

 

1) warns you are in timeshift mode and it is not possible

2) warns you are in timeshift mode and asks if you want to keep the timeshift file

3) creates a seperate recording file starting from where you press record

 

 

I can also see why if there is an option to keep the timeshift file already then development priorities may be needed elsewhere and this is iceing on the cake kind of stuff.

 

It's not a perfect option to keep the timeshift file but you do keep what wanted.

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Benarty

The remote is never too far away in my case and If I see something on the TV which is interesting to record, trhen I press on the record button on the Xbox360 remote.

The downside, not to forget that a recording is active but DVBViewer warns enough if a recording is still active.

 

It's possible to stop the recording with the same button also.

 

But the problem is: no visible confirmation that a manuel recording is indeed ended.

There is a OSD warning if the recording starts but none if a manual recording is ended by the user.

 

EPG info is not correct so recordings with epg info shows then wrong info, the previous program for example.

But this is not the fault of DVBViewer.

 

Timeshift: I don't use automatic timeshift, timeshifting starts as soon when I press the pause button.

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scf

I was using MT too for a long time. And used its shifted recording feature and I miss it with DVBV. In MT timeshift is implemented a little different. You specify size or length of the timeshift buffer

and it never grows bigger. So when you are watching some channel the buffer is filled, when it reaches its maximum size/length it just keeps rolling forgetting older frames.

So if Im watching a music channel and some video began which I want to record I won't miss the beginning. I just move timeshift cursor a few seconds back and press record.

It will catch up fast and put into recording file contents of the timeshift buffer ahead start record point.

 

Your suggestions about keep timeshift mean I should turn on (or use automatic timeshift) timeshift on every channel switch. And if I met some little interesting 5 minutes fragment during

hours of playback I should dig it within huge timeshift file. Kinda hard usable as for me.

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