Problem with DVBViewer and Transedit scanning

[linuxman]

I have just installed a fresh copy of 3.9.4.0 DVBViewer Pro with the corresponding latest Transedit add-on.

 

I have a Twinhan 1020a using BDA driver 1.2.3.8 on Windows XP Pro Service Pack 2 NVidia 6600 video w/256M ram and 2 gbs RAM on the machine with Intel DUO Core 2.33 processor.

 

No problems with video or audio codecs, the channels display fine and change polarity fine once they are input either manually, or by hooking up another receiver to power the LNBs.

 

Here is the wiring setup.

 

Receiver > GBox> 4-port diode steered Hi-Freq splitter (also hooked to Diamond 900HD)> 4x1 diseqc switch> powered multi-switch to orthomode feed-horn on an 8.5 foot perforated Birdview dish.

 

I have tried by-passing the splitter, and it works the same. Can't by-pass the multi-switch because that is how I get the different polarities off the orthomode feed.

 

As I said, everything works great once the channels are in place, just won't scan without the Diamond being turned on either a V or H channel for scanning.

 

If it is driver issue, and anyone knows of a newer driver, please let me know where to find it. twhinhan.com is non functional right now for some reason.

 

If you have a suggestion, please post it.

[linuxman]

I was just advised that I need the file generated by the Support Tool, but all the links I have found point to a different server, and are broken. If you know where I can get the tool itself, please post a working link, and I will attach the file.

 

Thanks!

[Lakeuk]

Use the link in the section "How to post problems/bugs correctly:" above

[linuxman]

Use the link in the section "How to post problems/bugs correctly:" above

 

Thanks!!

 

Here is the support file.support.zip

[linuxman]

Just wanted to give an update.

 

I have a competitive program that scans with my hardware, dish, switch, and LNB setup fine just like it is, so I don't think it is a problem with my hardware.

 

And as I said, DVBViewer displays and switches polarities just fine once the channels are in place. It seems the scanners are not sensitive enough to interpret the input they are receiving.

 

Maybe I am wrong, if so tell me so.

[Griga]

It seems the scanners are not sensitive enough to interpret the input they are receiving.

There is no "sensitivity" that may vary. It only depends on the tuner. Data comes or does not come. It may be a timing issue, however.

 

Try the following in TransEdit:

 

- Increase the PAT timeout on Settings -> Scanner 2 (e.g. to 6000 ms). The tuner lock timeout setting won't take effect on your card.

 

- Play a bit with "Stop stream while tuning" and "Use standard interface" on Settings -> Hardware.

 

- Set the number of retune attempts on Settings -> Hardware to 2 or 3

 

- Set DiSEqC to PosA/OptA, even if you don't need DiSEqC for switching between different satellite positions (suggesting DiSEqC = None). Some switches additionally want to see H/V as DiSEqC signal, not only as 18/14 V output voltage.

[linuxman]

There is no "sensitivity" that may vary. It only depends on the tuner. Data comes or does not come. It may be a timing issue, however.

 

Try the following in TransEdit:

 

- Increase the PAT timeout on Settings -> Scanner 2 (e.g. to 6000 ms). The tuner lock timeout setting won't take effect on your card.

 

- Play a bit with "Stop stream while tuning" and "Use standard interface" on Settings -> Hardware.

 

- Set the number of retune attempts on Settings -> Hardware to 2 or 3

 

- Set DiSEqC to PosA/OptA, even if you don't need DiSEqC for switching between different satellite positions (suggesting DiSEqC = None). Some switches additionally want to see H/V as DiSEqC signal, not only as 18/14 V output voltage.

Well that helped! Thanks!

 

I set the PAT timeout to 6000 ms, turned off the standard interface and set the number of retune attempt to 2 and I at least now have the PAT, PMT, SID, and NIT lights turning green on 5 or 6 of the known dozen or more active transponders on G17 91W but no channels.

 

Before, the green lights never even flashed.

 

So what do I try from here?

[starman345]

Well that helped! Thanks!

 

I set the PAT timeout to 6000 ms, turned off the standard interface and set the number of retune attempt to 2 and I at least now have the PAT, PMT, SID, and NIT lights turning green on 5 or 6 of the known dozen or more active transponders on G17 91W but no channels.

 

Before, the green lights never even flashed.

 

So what do I try from here?

 

Linuxman, have you had any further luck playing with the scanner settings?

[linuxman]

Linuxman, have you had any further luck playing with the scanner settings?

No I haven't had any further success. It seems like I got to the point I am, and can't get any further.

 

The scanner acts like it can't get enough signal to lock and bring in channels. I know it sounds silly when the program can play the channels once they are in the list. It just can't scan them in.

[Griga]

I set the PAT timeout to 6000 ms, turned off the standard interface and set the number of retune attempt to 2 and I at least now have the PAT, PMT, SID, and NIT lights turning green

So which of these measures actually takes effect?

 

but no channels.

What do you mean by "no channels"? If TransEdit receives PAT and PMT, at least some services should show up in the scanner window. What about the filter options?

 

Did you already try the TransEdit Analyzer? Results?

 

I don't have your hardware, I can't receive Galaxy 17, I'm not sitting in front of your PC. So it's up to you to get more experimental... and to post more details, not just "no channels". I don't want to spend my time with follow-up inquiries or blind guessing. If you want me to write more, you'll have to write more. And please attach the transponderlist INI file here that is used for scanning.

[linuxman]

So which of these measures actually takes effect?

What do you mean by "no channels"? If TransEdit receives PAT and PMT, at least some services should show up in the scanner window. What about the filter options?

 

Did you already try the TransEdit Analyzer? Results?

 

I don't have your hardware, I can't receive Galaxy 17, I'm not sitting in front of your PC. So it's up to you to get more experimental... and to post more details, not just "no channels". I don't want to spend my time with follow-up inquiries or blind guessing. If you want me to write more, you'll have to write more. And please attach the transponderlist INI file here that is used for scanning.

As I said before, I have played around with every setting in the hardware tab of the Transedit scanner settings.

 

I set the PAT timeout to 6000 ms, turned off the standard interface and set the number of retune attempt to back to 1 and I now have the PAT, PMT, SID, and NIT lights turning green on 5 or 6 of the known dozen or more active transponders on G17 91W.

 

I have out of the 35 transponders scanned about 5 or 6 with lights flickering and the screen did scan in 6 channels on the Vertical side. The program will not display a picture when I ask it to preview the channel.

 

The scanner in the channel list editor scans in no channels at all, and the lights do not flash at all on any of the 35 transponders that I have included in the transponder ini file I have uploaded. What does that mean? That means zero programs found. The analyzer does not work even on the transponders where the channels are found.

 

The only way I can get anything to work scanning is to turn on the the STB receiver, and change polarity to scan each side. Then transedit and the channel editor scanner work fine.

 

Some might jump to the conclusion that the Twinhan is not putting out enough power on it's own, but such is not the case. As I said earlier, a competitive program scans the channels in and displays them fine using the same card, driver, switches etc as DVBViewer does. The analyzer works fine too.

 

Additionally DVBViewer displays the channels on both polarities without the assistance of the STB receiver being turned on to supply power. So I believe the answer is elsewhere in the software.

 

See the attached transponder ini file.2690.ini

Edited September 26, 2008 by linuxman

[Derrick]

Here is the wiring setup.

 

Receiver > GBox> 4-port diode steered Hi-Freq splitter (also hooked to Diamond 900HD)> 4x1 diseqc switch> powered multi-switch to orthomode feed-horn on an 8.5 foot perforated Birdview dish.

 

I have tried by-passing the splitter, and it works the same. Can't by-pass the multi-switch because that is how I get the different polarities off the orthomode feed.

 

As I said, everything works great once the channels are in place, just won't scan without the Diamond being turned on either a V or H channel for scanning.

..get a technician so sort this out.

[linuxman]

..get a technician so sort this out.

I am a computer repair-man, sys-admin, work with multiple operating systems, can use and read a multimeter and I did check out all the wiring yesterday and today, replaced the 4 - port diode steered splitter, and by-passed the GBox as far as the signal is concerned, it still gets power, but the signal is routed around it.

 

There is nothing for a technician to check out because it works fine except for scanning in DVBViewer or Transedit.

Edited September 26, 2008 by linuxman

[Derrick]

I am a computer repair-man, sys-admin, work with multiple operating systems, can use and read a multimeter..

..doesn't qualify to install a working sat_if_distribution

 

Connect your lnb directly to the device detected by transedit (reads: DTV-DVBS 878 Digital Tuner Filter)

[Griga]

Well, your wiring setup - as posted above - doesn't tell me which kind of signal the receiver actually has to send to the switch in order to change polarity. No experience at all with that c-band stuff Can you tell me more about it?

 

Did you already notice that there is a possibility to change the 22 khz output (continuous tone)? From the TransEdit manual:

 

If your LNB does not belong to the „Universal“ type, set LOF SW to 0, and enter the appropriate Local Oscillator Frequency either as LOF 1, if you want the 22 khz tone to be switched off, or as LOF 2, if the 22 khz tone shall be switched on. The other (unused) LOF must be set to 0. This enables using a 22 khz switch for selecting a satellite position.

Your setup (LOF1 and LOF2 = 5150) lets TransEdit switch the 22 khz tone off. Maybe switching it on by setting LOF1 to 0 does something?

[linuxman]

Well, your wiring setup - as posted above - doesn't tell me which kind of signal the receiver actually has to send to the switch in order to change polarity. No experience at all with that c-band stuff Can you tell me more about it?

 

Did you already notice that there is a possibility to change the 22 khz output (continuous tone)? From the TransEdit manual:

Your setup (LOF1 and LOF2 = 5150) lets TransEdit switch the 22 khz tone off. Maybe switching it on by setting LOF1 to 0 does something?

Hi Griga,

 

The only signal the receiver needs to send to the powered multi-switch is 13V or 18V and the multi-switch changes the input from the vertical or horizontal LNB, after the powered multi-switch turns on the V or the H LNB accordingly to get signal only from that LNB. This switch is a 3x4 powered switch, so there is no 22Khz involved to make the switch.

 

The 22Khz needs to be off on this satellite, I do have some fixed Ku dishes in the same setup where the 22Khz needs to be on, and I have not tried those because getting my True South Satellite working for me is a pre-requisite before all else.

 

As to Derrick's suggestion to

Connect your lnb directly to the device detected by transedit (reads: DTV-DVBS 878 Digital Tuner Filter)

, that's a little hard to do with an Orthomode feed-horn. If I were to do that, I would only have one polarity. Besides, there really is no need to do that because I have 2 STB's and another Computer Satellite program working with the same setup through the 4 port hi-freq splitter.

 

Everything works except Transedit and the Channel Editor Scanner.

 

I will try moving the dish E/W and try and get a little better signal to see if that helps. Haven't had to on the other "receivers", but will try for DVBViewer's sake, and to make sure that I have left no room for error.

 

BTW, I posted in the newbie section because I am a newbie on this forum. I have owned DVBViewer Pro and had a Technisat SS2 working with DVBViewer until I switched to the Twinhan about 6 months ago, and went with the other program. I even figured out a way to make the SS2 work with this same dish setup in the other program.

 

I have 6 working C/Ku dishes in various sizes from 7.5 feet to 10 feet, a motorized primestar, and 6 or 8 fixed Ku dishes with multiple LNBs on each, so I am not exactly a newbie with legal Free To Air TV.

[Derrick]

..oops, I'd should have read your setup more carefully The OMT is connected to 2 different LNCs which are combined by a switch, right? If you use voltage to switch polarity, the setup of transedit is straight forward (only LOF and polarity) What does the analyzer show?

[Griga]

Another thing I would do: Compare the transponderlist data with the LyngSat data and correct it, if necessary. Some of your symbolrate values are a bit different. And I wouldn't set FEC to Auto, but to the correct value. There are tuners/demodulators that get more "responsive" if they haven't to find it out.

 

Additionally DVBViewer displays the channels on both polarities without the assistance of the STB receiver being turned on to supply power.

The tuning process for playback and scanning is exactly the same (provided the network/transponder settings are identical), except one thing: Playback has no timeout. It will wait until data comes. The Analyzer has no timeout. The scanner only waits a limited amount of time (configurable in TransEdit).

 

I set the PAT timeout to 6000 ms, turned off the standard interface and set the number of retune attempt to back to 1 and I now have the PAT, PMT, SID, and NIT lights turning green on 5 or 6 of the known dozen or more active transponders on G17 91W.

Try to find out which of these changes takes effect.

[linuxman]

..oops, I'd should have read your setup more carefully The OMT is connected to 2 different LNCs which are combined by a switch, right? If you use voltage to switch polarity, the setup of transedit is straight forward (only LOF and polarity) What does the analyzer show?

Hi Derrick,

The analyzer does not show anything as yet, but I will try and find the configuration settings for it and set the time-out for a little longer. Yes the LOF and polarity is all that is needed.

 

I bumped the dish a bit West, and Transedit did scan in over a dozen channels of both polarities, still no preview of those channels and the analyzer doesn't pull anything in on those transponders. I will adjust the time-out as suggested.

 

Griga wrote:

Another thing I would do: Compare the transponderlist data with the LyngSat data and correct it, if necessary. Some of your symbolrate values are a bit different. And I wouldn't set FEC to Auto, but to the correct value. There are tuners/demodulators that get more "responsive" if they haven't to find it out.

Lyngsat data although useful, and setting the FEC to the correct setting might help, the information in the TP file is from a blind scan using my Coolsat 5000 on the same LNBs and same switch setup. My thought that frequency drift might be better served with my current settings, but am open to setting them as written on Lyngsat.

 

The tuning process for playback and scanning is exactly the same (provided the network/transponder settings are identical), except one thing: Playback has no timeout. It will wait until data comes. The Analyzer has no timeout. The scanner only waits a limited amount of time (configurable in TransEdit).

You see that's the thing, the channel comes in instantly, and the channel change is almost instant. There is no hesitation at all. I also tried the scanner in the Channel Editor and still no lights or channels there.

 

I set the PAT timeout to 6000 ms, turned off the standard interface and set the number of retune attempt to back to 1.

My current settings are no tick marks by the standard interface or the stop stream while tuning, I have the DTV 878 as the preferred device and 6000 ms on the PAT timing.

 

I will adjust the FEC on the Transponders, and Symbolrates and give that a try. If no better, I will adjust the frequencies to what Lyngsat shows and try that.

 

BTW, there are over 60 un-encrypted channels on that satellite right now, so the scanner is not seeing but about 20% of what is there.

 

Thanks for both of your help!

Edited September 26, 2008 by linuxman

[linuxman]

Ok, I may have found a clue to part of the problems.

 

I deleted all my previous channels on G17 91W that I had scanned in while the STB receiver was on except the 3 CW channels that must be manually entered anyway.

 

Ran Transedit and got 13 channels both H and V polarities. Tried Preview and it would not work. Selected them all and sent to DVBViewer program. Wrote down transponders and tried analyzer. Did not work. I'll get to that in a minute.

 

Closed Transedit and opened EVBViewer. My 3 manually entered channels worked fine as before. The new scanned in channels by Transedit would not display. Opened up the channel list editor and every channel had 22Khz turned on in their editing screen. I set them all to 22Khz none, and they all played fine.

 

Something in Transedit is turning on the 22Khz on the channels it scans in and I suspect it is doing it while scanning. Hence all the problems. Definitely why no preview displayed.

 

I couldn't find where to allow more time for the analyzer, so I took some screen-shots of the my settings in Transedit.

 

 

 

I may have to un-install and remove everything to get this to work properly. If so, is there a registry cleaner for the program, or just have to do it by hand.

[linuxman]

I found the problem!!!

 

I set the LOF1 to 5150 and LOF2 to 0 and sw was already at 0.

 

That did it!!!

 

Preview works, channels scan in fine, analyzer works, everything.

 

Thank you all for your help. I had no idea that turning on the second LOF would send a 22Khz on to the scanner.

[Griga]

Your setup (LOF1 and LOF2 = 5150) lets TransEdit switch the 22 khz tone off.

Sorry, wrong conclusion from my code. Didn't read it carefully enough. Your setup switches 22 khz on. So set LOF2 = 0 (according to the TransEdit manual), and 22 khz will be switched off for sure. Or set LOFSW to a frequency that is higher than the highest frequency in your list.

 

The logic behind it is:

 

if (LOF2 = 0) or ((LOF1 > 0) and (Frequency < LOFSW)) then
 Actual_LOF := LOF1
 22 khz := off
else
 Actual_LOF := LOF2
 22 khz := on

 

So in your case, since all frequencies are greater than LOFSW, 22 khz is switched on. If both LOF values are > 0, TransEdit assumes that 22 khz switching is required (which is true for universal LNBs).

 

P.S. You were faster. Do you think it would make sense to switch 22 khz off anyway if LOF1 = LOF2 and LOFSW = 0? Which kind of logic would you prefer? You know more about the typical conditions of c-band reception than me, I guess...

Edited September 27, 2008 by Griga

[linuxman]

Sorry, wrong conclusion from my code. Didn't read it carefully enough. Your setup switches 22 khz on. So set LOF2 = 0 (according to the TransEdit manual), and 22 khz will be switched off for sure. Or set LOFSW to a frequency that is higher than the highest frequency in your list.

 

The logic behind it is:

 

if (LOF2 = 0) or ((LOF1 > 0) and (Frequency < LOFSW)) then
 Actual_LOF := LOF1
 22 khz := off
else
 Actual_LOF := LOF2
 22 khz := on

 

So in your case, since all frequencies are greater than LOFSW, 22 khz is switched on. If both LOF values are > 0, TransEdit assumes that 22 khz switching is required (which is true for universal LNBs).

 

P.S. You were faster. Do you think it would make sense to switch 22 khz off anyway if LOF1 = LOF2 and LOFSW = 0? Which kind of logic would you prefer? You know more about the typical conditions of c-band reception than me, I guess...

Well I understand the logic of the code. I am not a programmer, but done enough "copying and pasting to see the flow.

 

In the other program that I use, setting both LOF to 5150 works fine, and I do have 4 Universal ku LNBFs run through an Ecoda switch where I only use the high side, so I set the LOF in both places to 10600 and the sw to 11700 which turns on the 22Khz side of the Ecoda switch, and also turns on the high side of the Universal LNBFs.

 

The 22Khz side off of the Ecoda switch goes to diseqc port 1 Ku Band of the Orthomode port 2 to C-Band on the Orthomode, port 3 to DBS LNB hung on the side of the feed-horn for whatever is out there free, and port 4 goes to a standard LNBF on a fixed dish pointed at 123W.

 

The 22Khz side on goes to a second diseqc port 1 - is on a Universal LNBF on a fixed dish on 87W, port 2 Uni fixed dish on 97W, port 3 Uni on fixed dish at 129W, and port 4 Uni on fixed dish on 30W.

 

It is a little complicated, but the Twinhan has always been able to make it all work. The powered multi-switch is the key which allows the card to only have to put out enough power to make the switch on polarity. The powered multi-switch I modified so that it sends a full 18V down both sides for the old style LNBs.

 

Most C-Band users use either a Co-Rotor or Polarotor and have an analog box or DVB receiver that can run a servo motor to change the polarities for them.

 

I started this particular setup with the Birdview dish to get the maximum signal using what I have, and now that this all works, hope to buy a TT S2-3200 or a DVBWorld USB S2 tuner, add an ATSC tuner of some kind, and reproduce what the Diamond 9000HD is currently doing with the added benefit of h.264 and 4:2:2 displayed.

 

But I wanted to make sure the programs worked with my existing setup before spending more money on it.

 

To answer your original question, IMHO the sw setting should control whether the 22Khz is on or off by inputting 0 or 11700. The LOF settings should not interfere with that.

[Derrick]

Most C-Band users use either a Co-Rotor or Polarotor and have an analog box or DVB receiver that can run a servo motor to change the polarities for them.

..that could be real challenge to implement polarizer control AFAIK there's no pc application that can control either a mechanical nor magnetic polarizer. But additional hardware would be required as well.

[linuxman]

..that could be real challenge to implement polarizer control AFAIK there's no pc application that can control either a mechanical nor magnetic polarizer. But additional hardware would be required as well.

That's why I chose a completely voltage switched setup. It is elaborate and some extra switches, but it will allow any receiver STB or computer device to change the polarity.

 

After thinking about what I stated earlier, I do perhaps see the need for different LOF's to be entered that would allow for automatic 22Khz on and off for use with Universal Ku LNBFs.

 

There will be on the market soon a new model of the GBox positioner that will control the polarity with skew for each satellite position and skew adjustment using the GBox remote control to take all of that out of the hands of the receiver. The receiver will send it's H and V through the GBox and it will switch the polarity on a Co-Rotor based on the voltage sent. I provided a stand alone polarity control to Sadoun Satellite sales, and his engineers have integrated that technology into the new positioner. It is supposed to be available in early November.

[Griga]

IMHO the sw setting should control whether the 22Khz is on or off by inputting 0 or 11700. The LOF settings should not interfere with that.

That wouldn't cover switches allowing to select a satellite position resp. (non-universal) LNB by 22 khz on/off. Which means, you would have a transponder list for position A with LOF2 = 0 and another one for position B with LOF1 = 0 - not necessarily c band. The frequencies may be higher than 11700 on both positions.

 

22 khz switches are not very common nowadays, but there may be still people using such an equipment. However, if LOF1 and LOF2 are set to the same value, TransEdit could switch 22 khz off, thus making it easier for people like you

[linuxman]

That wouldn't cover switches allowing to select a satellite position resp. (non-universal) LNB by 22 khz on/off. Which means, you would have a transponder list for position A with LOF2 = 0 and another one for position B with LOF1 = 0 - not necessarily c band. The frequencies may be higher than 11700 on both positions.

 

22 khz switches are not very common nowadays, but there may be still people using such an equipment. However, if LOF1 and LOF2 are set to the same value, TransEdit could switch 22 khz off, thus making it easier for people like you

I don't think there is a need to change it. If I had carefully re-read the manual, I would have known how to set it up and we wouldn't have had this exercise, but now I know.

 

Sometimes it is good to have a problem. It improves your diagnosing skills.

[linuxman]

I do have a question about transponder ini files.

 

Is it possible to find transponder ini files that have C-Band and Ku Band separated instead of all in one?

Edited September 27, 2008 by linuxman

[linuxman]

I do have a question about transponder ini files.

 

Is it possible to find transponder ini files that have C-Band and Ku Band separated instead of all in one?

I got a tool from a guy on another forum that will convert a blind-scanned channel list pulled into Channel Master and saved as a cmproj file and export those to transponder ini files which in my case has C-Band and Ku Band separated.

 

I also used the Satcodx plugin to pull in the same channel list by exporting the above list from Channel Master as a Satcodx file and importing that with the plugin.

 

It all worked very well and saved me a lot of time.

 

Thank you for all your help!