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AndrueC

DVBViewer - my thoughts

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AndrueC

Edit:Removed recording service comments.

 

DVBViewer Main App

The Channel Editor - can it be sorted please? I'd like to hide all the crap I know I won't watch but with it being unsorted that's impossible.

 

BBC HD - it's a bit of a pain that it keeps putting the Narrative (NAR) channel first in its subtree. As a novice user I had no idea how to fix this.

 

Scanning - Something odd here. I did a scan and checked 'update' but ended up with duplicate channels. In the end I had to delete everything and scan again from scratch.

 

Recording Service - On the odd occasion when I do start the main app the recording service stops. That's fair enough. What's less sensible is that it doesn't automatically start when the main app is closed. On another forum I was advised that it does for one person.

 

--

 

I think that's all for now. In case this post appears negative I'll state that I like the product. It's doing what I need it to do. It's just that I'm comparing it to Sky+ and my Humax 9200. At present DVBViewer lacks polish. It's clearly got the technical stuff sorted but I'm trying to record TV not programme a computer - I do that during the day and don't wish to do it at home :)

Edited by AndrueC

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Devastation
The Channel Editor - can it be sorted please? I'd like to hide all the crap I know I won't watch but with it being unsorted that's impossible.

In the Members section is a special channel editor. With that you can sort the channellist the way you like.

 

BBC HD - it's a bit of a pain that it keeps putting the Narrative (NAR) channel first in its subtree.

If its a channel so the channel editor should help you here too.

 

Recording Service

I use DVB-V with task sheduler for recordings. Once all settings adjustet its Quick, easy, simple.

 

stuff sorted but I'm trying to record TV not programme a computer - I do that during the day and don't wish to do it at home :wacko:

Read the manuals and the wiki. Search in the forum for adjustments. Once you have made the settings perfect for you its fantastic simple. I needed a little time till then, but I'm no programmer.

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starman345
Read the manuals and the wiki.

 

Where can I find the wiki?

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Kuni
Where can I find the wiki?

 

 

Then ask where the ENGLISH documentation is..

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Devastation
Then ask where the ENGLISH documentation is..

Ahh yes sorry, the wiki is german.

 

English manual

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AndrueC
In the Members section is a special channel editor. With that you can sort the channellist the way you like.
Why do I need a separate application? My suggestion stands - please let us sort the list in the Channel Editor.
If its a channel so the channel editor should help you here too.
Yes. I can manually change it every time I rescan. My point still stands - please can it be fixed?
I use DVB-V with task sheduler for recordings. Once all settings adjustet its Quick, easy, simple.
Does that provide a Web-based UI so that you can set up recordings when you're not at the computer where DVBViewer is installed?
Read the manuals and the wiki. Search in the forum for adjustments. Once you have made the settings perfect for you its fantastic simple. I needed a little time till then, but I'm no programmer.
I wasn't really looking for help. This is the Suggestions & Ideas forum and I was posting suggestions :)

 

But since you brought it up here's another suggestion:Please make the software a little easier to use o:)

 

DVBViewer is good in doing what it does but at times it can be unfriendly. My suggestions are aimed at trying to make it less awkward. I suppose it depends what you expect from it. If you view it as a geeky program for geeks then it's excellent. I try to view it as a computer based PVR in which case it's okay but can be a PITA to use sometimes.

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Kuni
Ahh yes sorry, the wiki is german.

 

English manual

 

 

Sorry, I was more alluding to the fact that the Eng docs appear to be 5 years old?

 

I know I'm wrong so can someone point me in the direction of the Engish docs for Version 3.9.x?

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uglyned
Edit:Removed recording service comments.

 

DVBViewer Main App

The Channel Editor - can it be sorted please? I'd like to hide all the crap I know I won't watch but with it being unsorted that's impossible.

 

You don't need to use the channel editor to do this, just drag and drop them. You can also filter to FTA only. DVBViewer isn't UK developed so can't know how Brits like to order their channels, or what we're used to (sky EPG etc). Favourites are quite helpful too.

 

BBC HD - it's a bit of a pain that it keeps putting the Narrative (NAR) channel first in its subtree. As a novice user I had no idea how to fix this.

 

After watching a few programmes where I found myself thinking 'the narrator is stating the obvious here' I realised I had this too. I guess you've realised that a simple drag and drop sorts it out. All of my changes stay this way permanently even after a rescan if...

 

Scanning - Something odd here. I did a scan and checked 'update' but ended up with duplicate channels. In the end I had to delete everything and scan again from scratch.

 

... you tick 'Update' AND 'Update channel names' in the scan window and in the 'target root' drop down, select the channel group which was created on your first (initial) channel scan. No dupes this way and also your personal settings (channel order etc) are not altered. Any changes you make here are also reflected in the recording service.

 

There's not much point comparing DVBViewer to a set top box. STBs are limited severely by their hardware platform and if applications like DVBViewer were as unconfigurable as STBs there would be a lot more complaints than compliments. I agree that the application is not intuitive initially but there's a lot of functionality to understand. Sometimes I've tried to over-complicate solutions - the BBC HD NAR channel for instance, looking through all the Video and Audio PIDs trying to change them when a drag and drop was all that was needed - that's more the fault of me as a user than of the developer of the software.

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AndrueC
You don't need to use the channel editor to do this, just drag and drop them. You can also filter to FTA only. DVBViewer isn't UK developed so can't know how Brits like to order their channels, or what we're used to (sky EPG etc).
LOL! I have 525 FTA channels of which perhaps two dozen are regional duplicates. Have you ever tried to sort out a list like that? All I actually want is an alphanumeric sort. The current order is hardly helpful:

 

Name=Channel 4 (eng)

Name=Film4 (eng)

Name=More4 +1 (eng)

Name=c4 l

Name=Film4 +1 (eng)

Name=c4 nl

Name=E4+1 (eng)

Name=Channel 4 +1 (eng)

Name=More4 (eng)

Name=8389

Name=c4 l +1 (eng)

Name=e4

Name=ITV1 London (eng)

Name=ITV2 (eng)

Name=ITV4 (eng)

Name=Men & Motors (eng)

Name=ITVi Stream 44

Name=BBC 2 England (eng)

Name=ETV

Name=BBC TES 3

Name=BBC 1 NI

Name=Five (eng)

Name=ETV5

Name=ETV2

Name=BBC 1 Oxford

Name=ETV6

Name=ITV4+1 (eng)

Name=G49

Name=BBC HD (AC3,eng)

Name=6945 (AC3,eng)

Name=ITV2+1 (eng)

Name=G53

Name=stv

Name=UTV

Name=ITV3 (eng)

Name=ITV3+1 (eng)

Name=G54

Name=UCB TV

Name=Zone Horror+1

Name=Northern Birds

Name=EMTV

Name=movies4men

Name=movies4men 2

Name=PTV Global

 

...etc

 

There are at least half a dozen regional variations of BBC1, BBC2 and ITV1. Getting rid of them would be easier if they were grouped together but they aren't. There's a couple of clumps but I think the list is currently by frequency and for historic reasons the frequencies on Astra 2D are all over the shop.

 

After watching a few programmes where I found myself thinking 'the narrator is stating the obvious here' I realised I had this too. I guess you've realised that a simple drag and drop sorts it out.
Someone told me. Would just be nice if it didn't do it :(
All of my changes stay this way permanently even after a rescan if...

... you tick 'Update' AND 'Update channel names' in the scan window and in the 'target root' drop down, select the channel group which was created on your first (initial) channel scan. No dupes this way and also your personal settings (channel order etc) are not altered. Any changes you make here are also reflected in the recording service.

Ah cool, that's nice to know. Edited by AndrueC

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dvbrewer
LOL! I have 525 FTA channels of which perhaps two dozen are regional duplicates. Have you ever tried to sort out a list like that? All I actually want is an alphanumeric sort. The current order is hardly helpful:

You know if you right click the channellist there are plenty of sort options, i.e. alphanumeric, by frequency, category, etc?

Edited by dvbrewer

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AndrueC
You know if you right click the channellist there are plenty of sort options, i.e. alphanumeric, by frequency, category, etc?
Yes. Those options would be good to have in the Channel Editor as well which is why I'm suggesting it.

 

The current lack of sorting makes cleaning out the crap far too painful. It is also unfortunately the list that the recording service uses which means that when I want to record something I have to chose the channel from a drop down list with 525 unsorted items. Hopefully that might sort its own list eventually but the Editor would still benefit from it.

 

I'm actually a little perplexed (and saddened) that they aren't. To me it seems obvious. Everywhere my programs present a list of items to the user I allow them to be sorted. There are very few situations where a user won't want to sort lists of items.

 

Anyway I've strayed off topic into programming and if I don't stop now I might never stop :(

Edited by AndrueC

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uglyned
Yes. Those options would be good to have in the Channel Editor as well which is why I'm suggesting it.

 

The current lack of sorting makes cleaning out the crap far too painful. It is also unfortunately the list that the recording service uses which means that when I want to record something I have to chose the channel from a drop down list with 525 unsorted items. Hopefully that might sort its own list eventually but the Editor would still benefit from it.

 

I'm actually a little perplexed (and saddened) that they aren't. To me it seems obvious. Everywhere my programs present a list of items to the user I allow them to be sorted. There are very few situations where a user won't want to sort lists of items.

 

Anyway I've strayed off topic into programming and if I don't stop now I might never stop :(

 

Surely there has to be a trade off between programming effort and results?

 

Realistically, to someone who already has Sky+ and DVB-T and bearing in mind the relatively low number of channels which have Freesat EPG listings, there are only 15-20 channels which you're ever really going to watch or record from. All I did was drag the relevant channels up to the top of the list and put them in the order I want them in. It doesn't matter that all the irrelevant channels are still there because you'll never venture far enough down the list to see them. That is, after all, pretty much what Sky do with their EPG.

 

It only took me 10 minutes to do - less time than it would have taken me to complain about it on this forum...

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Lakeuk

Everything you're asking for can be done now, all that's need is a bit of leg work first time round, just create category folders (Main, News, Film, Music etc...), drag channels you're interested in into the folders , channels you're not interested in delete or put in a junk folder

 

Any channels you don't want to appear on the epg select remove from epg tick

 

Save your channel list as a backup incase you muck anything up in the future

 

Next time you do a scan do an update scan

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AndrueC
It only took me 10 minutes to do - less time than it would have taken me to complain about it on this forum...
It wasn't a complaint. It was a suggestion. This is the Suggestions & Ideas section.

 

If the developers didn't want their users to spend time and effort posting suggestions they'd close this section down. Just because you can't be bothered to think about ways that DVBViewer could be improved is no excuse for trying to dissuade others. No software is perfect. DVBViewer is one of those rare examples of an application that does what it's supposed to. I consider it worth my while offering ideas for improvements. Some software isn't worth the effort - DVBViewer is.

 

Even if it 'only' took you ten minutes - that's ten minutes that you probably wouldn't have had to spend if the Channel Editor had an ability to sort alphanumerically. It's also one less annoyance to irritate new users.

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uglyned
It wasn't a complaint. It was a suggestion. This is the Suggestions & Ideas section.

 

If the developers didn't want their users to spend time and effort posting suggestions they'd close this section down. Just because you can't be bothered to think about ways that DVBViewer could be improved is no excuse for trying to dissuade others. No software is perfect. DVBViewer is one of those rare examples of an application that does what it's supposed to. I consider it worth my while offering ideas for improvements. Some software isn't worth the effort - DVBViewer is.

 

Even if it 'only' took you ten minutes - that's ten minutes that you probably wouldn't have had to spend if the Channel Editor had an ability to sort alphanumerically. It's also one less annoyance to irritate new users.

 

Actually you should read this thread again. The language in your posts is quite harsh and you do slot the odd complaint in there too. Nobody wants to get into an argument here, we're all just trying to improve some software and make it better for all of us.

 

I just think the point everyone is trying to make here is that the things you're asking for with regard to ordering channels are already there and short of using a USB mindreader, there's no way anyone can set up a system to configure itself to each user's preferences without the user telling it what those preferences are.

 

With something like channel list ordering, the programmers are giving you the tools to sort your channels exactly how you want them and, more importantly, are expecting you to want to do that.

 

I do have many ideas and suggestions and I'm surprised that by now the forum moderators haven't deleted my account to stop me pestering them. But I'm much more keen to see developments which add functionality and improve what's already there, rather than see another way of doing something that only takes 10 minutes to do, and would still take 10 minutes to do after the addition.

 

Everybody likes their channels sorted their own way and no tool is going to be able to guess what they want and do it for them.

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bergh

Hello !

 

I must brake a lnace for this 100 times repeated complain/suggestion on Channel List.

I find the present Channel list a pain in the ---------------.

 

Regradless how it is be seen,

for a Newby it is a total disaster.

 

I have made my arrangement too.

The 20 Chzannels I am watchiung are on Top in a Folder called MastermindBergH (I am kidding) ;)

 

But : If you want to add an Audio channel you have to be a Mouse Acrobat and it does not work well.

Thats a fact. Off course the developers have other things on their to do list hence

Do not beat Newbies just because they are siggesting a better Channel Handling in the DVBV and not in an additional program.

 

 

And teh only harsh tone here is normally when all beat on the Newbies that they should not complain because the programmers than will be angry. :(

 

I know there are more important things than the channel handling.

Nevertheless i bought the DVBViewer 2005 and this handling has not improved at all.

(My opinion.) On second thought : The right click options are newer so my opinion is relatively slow changing. ;)

 

And now you can beat me.

 

 

Stop :

The DVBViewer is the best overall program no discussion.

And One can handle the channles no discussion.

BUT The handling is crap* and if someone state this this should berecognize as it is.

 

 

*

Sometimes I have to push a Channel 3 times before it lands at the right place

no intuitive handling at all.

At least on my PC i have a lot of trouble doing it with the mouse.

Normal windows Procedures do not work.

(E.g. Select several channels with STRG and Mouseclick (for our british friend STRG = CTRL) )

and so on.

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The Gus

I feel 4.0 much much faster than 3.x, that's no doubt about it.

Since I don't know how much work there's behind it I won't comment if the actual is really a new vesion of the software or rather still a 3.x evolution.

Sure a change in the channel management (most of all, channel numbers user defined) could have been done to give more excellence points to an already very good software.

 

Just my thoughts, DVBV rocks!

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AndrueC
With something like channel list ordering, the programmers are giving you the tools to sort your channels exactly how you want them and, more importantly, are expecting you to want to do that.
No they aren't. Still I get the message now. You don't want your precious software to change. Fine. Goodbye.

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dvbrewer
Everybody likes their channels sorted their own way and no tool is going to be able to guess what they want and do it for them.

He never asked for a UK style (i.e. Freesat/Sky) list order- he said he just wanted the ability to sort the channels alphanumerically! Not such a big request is it? :(

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Lars_MQ

Oh wow, like a temper tandrum of a 6 year old in a supermarket, or even better like miss piggy from the muppet show throwing her feather thingy around her, stamping out of the door and slamming it. :(;)

 

The channel handling ist shitty, I agree, The favorite handling ist shitty, I agree. And now? you're ready to take the blame to break everything? I'm not.

Give me a complete concept which covers all bases (WORLDWIDE!!) and is guarantied to please every user (WORLDWIDE!!) and doesn't break anything (because it users don't like changes and this causes temper tantrums and diva fits ;) ). I program it. It's that easy.

And yes we may be to stupid to do it ourselves. That would explain, why we have to endure such posts instead of enjoing our hundrets of millions of euro some where it's warm, sunny and nice... ;) ;)

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dvbrewer

Lars, honestly I think people misundertood what he was asking- the problem is he uses the recording service and that at the moment just takes the channel list from DVBViewer which doesn't allow favourite filtering so you have a channel list that is incredibly long, full of duplicates and hard to follow so he he just wants the ability to permanently alphanumerically sort the list- that is not such a difficult request is it?

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Tjod

There is a easy way to sort the channel list alphanumerically.

Export the channel list as .csv sort it withe OpenOffice Calc or Excel and reimport it.

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uglyned
Lars, honestly I think people misundertood what he was asking- the problem is he uses the recording service and that at the moment just takes the channel list from DVBViewer which doesn't allow favourite filtering so you have a channel list that is incredibly long, full of duplicates and hard to follow so he he just wants the ability to permanently alphanumerically sort the list- that is not such a difficult request is it?

 

Permanent alphanumeric sort wouldn't really solve it for me - I'd have huge lists of BBC and ITV variations next to each other and would only ever use a couple of them.

 

All I've been trying to say is that I just dragged 15 or so channels to the top of my channel list, put them in an order I was familiar with and that was it. Job done. Channels in the order I want, at the top of the list in both DVBViewer and Recording service and there permanently too, even after re-scans.

 

I haven't tried ordering radio channels so can't comment on that, I just don't see what the problem when dragging and dropping is what a mouse was made for.

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creeek

I just have to add and totally agree with 'UglyNed'! (nice name!)

 

This DBviewer (I am totally new!)

Is very difficult to use for a 1st timer, almost a DOS version compared to windows.

 

Here is my example:

Over the past year or so, I have accumulated THREE DBT sticks and the software supplied is excellent to use, but dosnt work reliably and there are never any updates! (I have BlazeTV > WandTV, Arcsoft - MobiDTV and the Freecom)

I was about to bin 2 of them, then I discovered DBviewer and now the ALL work.

BUT, my god, what an effort to get them working, i.e. to switch between sticks, I have to click "options", >> hardware (a MASSIVE list!), then click 'scan devices', THEN goto channels list and scan range.... mmmm this is easy for a 1st timer?? (NO!)

 

dosnt THIS say how hard this EXCELLENT (DOS based?) program is.

 

Problem IS that the programmers are too 'close', meaning they KNOW where to go from day 1, they designed it and added to it. they need to sit back and re-design the interface from scratch, if they want it 'easy to use' AND intuative to use.

 

ITS the FIRST time users that will be able to tell you how bad the interface is... TOO techie. As long time users KNOW where everything is and can do what they require.

 

Hopefully you will understand what is being said?!

 

Also, like uglyned, I would like to help to this end!

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CX23882-19

For me, the only thing that is complicated about DVBViewer is the channel scan process. That's not to say that it's impossible to understand, but I think that "newbies" might struggle with it. I have a few suggestions for how it could be improved (well, dumbed down), but I'm unsure as to whether the developers would welcome it. One thing that I do know is that any simplification should only come about through a choice between a Simple and Advanced mode for channel scan. I like the flexibility of DVBViewer. Media Center's channel scan is so dumbed down that it creates problems in the presence of multiple transmitters.

 

All other complaints that I've read are down to personal preference or niggles from people who want DVBViewer to be a naff Media Center clone. When compared to its real non-HTPC competitors such as ProgDVB, DVBDream and MyTheatre, DVBViewer is a much slicker program, and probably easier to use. You can't really compare it to HTPC apps such as MediaPortal, GB-PVR and Media Center.

 

The fact that it's a regular application is the greatest thing about DVBViewer. EVERYTHING is available by right-clicking the mouse. You don't have to remember some obscure keyboard shortcuts as with some of the full-screen HTPC apps.

Edited by CX23882-19

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Moses

For first time users, first time device scan and first time channel scan there is the wizard. I don't know how creeek manged to get arround the wizard, but he obviously did.

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AndrueC

Interesting to see how my thread developed after I got sat on by the local fan club. I'm a software developer so, yes, I get annoyed by 'dumb users' sometimes but I try to keep those opinions to myself. I would certainly never, ever attack a new user like that. If this was free software being made available out of the goodness of your heart then it might be understandable. Treating a paying customer like that is bad for business and from looking around the forums I see it a lot. I don't know if it's a language thing but this can be a very hostile forum at times.

 

Anyway as an update I lost three hours worth of programming this weekend because of the way DVBViewer handles channels. BBC HD changed PIDs and only one of the several copies of BBC HD in my list auto updated (sadly not the one I was selecting in the recording service). I'm now puzzled as to what kind of ordering the CLE is using. I've got three or four copies of everything and they are all over the shop. If they'd been sorted I'd have spotted the duplication.

 

I'm going to have another look at the standalone editor app. I'm sure I looked at it earlier in the year but for some reason I guess it didn't help. I might also try a rescan from scratch but that's how I've ended up with duplicates in the past. Failing that I'll just write my own program to sort out the list.

Edited by AndrueC

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uglyned

I really, strongly recommend that you just drag your channels into the order that you want them in. It genuinely didn't take me long to do and I only had to do it once. In fact, when I later added a couple of DVB-T tuners I dragged all my terrestrial channels into place from channel number 101 onwards. So now, effectively, Channel number 1 = BBC1 satellite, 101 = BBC1 terrestrial and so on.

 

I had to dump a dummy at the top of the list as the DVBViewer channel numbering starts at 0 not 1. I know this isn't ideal but DVBViewer is still the most useful DVB app for me that I've come across so until these things change I'm just going to make it as easy for myself as I can.

 

Couple of screenshots attached so you can see what I mean.

 

The other major advantage is these changes are replicated in the recording service. So when I'm setting recordings in there, the timeline and channel list are in a familiar order.

 

My recording service missed a few shows in the middle of a series when the PIDs changed. I don't have as comprehensive an understanding of programming as you guys - all I know is that recording service didn't pick up the change but DVBViewer seemed to update things quietly when it next ran. Unfortunately everything set to record between the time the PIDs changed and the next time I ran DVBViewer failed.

 

PS When a programmer talks of having lost 'several hours of programming' it does lead the reader down rather the wrong alley...

Edited by uglyned

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dvbrewer
Anyway as an update I lost three hours worth of programming this weekend because of the way DVBViewer handles channels. BBC HD changed PIDs and only one of the several copies of BBC HD in my list auto updated (sadly not the one I was selecting in the recording service). I'm now puzzled as to what kind of ordering the CLE is using. I've got three or four copies of everything and they are all over the shop. If they'd been sorted I'd have spotted the duplication.

I'd like to echo this complaint, everytime I do a new scan I seem to end up with millions of duplicates. Then with the channellist sorted by transponder, when I try to delete each duplicate channel the list collapses and I have to fiddle getting back to the right transponder and have to do that for each duplicate B). There really does need to be a way of sorting the channels by transponder or alphabetically in the channel list editor as there is in the channellist.

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