hamish_ Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Hi, I've been using my computer as my only method of watching and recording TV for several years now. I started by using Nebula Electonics DVB-T hardware and software, with Digiguide to browse programmes and schedule recordings. I waited a long time for them to release DVB-S hardware, but they went bust before they ever got that far. This prompted me to look elsewhere and I ended up with a Pinnacle dual DVB-S card and DVBViewer, still using Digiguide for scheduling. I've been using this setup for about three months now, so have formed some opinions I would like to share. I quickly realised how much I liked the architecture of the Nebula software despite some annoying details. In summary, the software always runs, even when you're not using it. It manages all the tuners you have and allocates them to whatever software modules need them. Each tuner can be allocated to a recording, a local viewer or a remote viewer. Two software modules can use a tuner at once, but only one can control which multiplex it's tuned to. The software can be installed on a machine with no hardware, connect to a machine which has hardware and behave very similarly with very little configuration. If all tuners are in use for other things, all channels are greyed out from the UI except these on multiplexes which are currently tuned. I can't think of any better architecture than this although it could definately have been implemented better. It looks to me like DVBViewer is along a similar track, but I would really like to think that is will end up even closer. I have been following the progress of the Recording Service closely. So far it has not got to a stage where I feel it's usable by me due to its isolation from the main application, but I think it could be the heart of DVBViewer in the future. It could be the place where all tuning occurs for both recording an live viewing. The main application would not have any direct involvement with hardware, it would request a transport stream from the service. If available, it would be supplied, then most other aspects of the application would be unchanged. By requestiing status information from the service, the UI could refect harware availability (e.g. in the channel list). If this transport stream was supplied over IP, the viewer application(s) could easily be on a different computer(s) to the hardware and service. Of cource a more complex arrangement would allow some demultiplexing in the service to save on network traffic. One of the key aspects to this arrangement the that the viewer application can be opened and closed (or even crash) without disturbing precious recordings. From my position of not knowing the nuts and bolts of the software, none of this seems like a complete change of direction to me, more of a reorganisation. I'm concious that I shouldn't see this approach as better just because it's what I've used in the past. I really think it would make DVBViewer much more useful and powerful software which I'd pay to upgrade to and hopefully be able to keep using for many years in the future. If your a user who likes the sound of these ideas, please add your support here! Of course I'd love to hear what the developers think and how close this is to what you already have in mind. Cheers, Hamish Quote Link to comment
AndrueC Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I have been following the progress of the Recording Service closely. So far it has not got to a stage where I feel it's usable by me due to its isolation from the main application, but I think it could be the heart of DVBViewer in the future.I agree. It's a lot like a PVR. Needs a little more tweaking but it's already where I do 99% of my interaction. Quote Link to comment
ElecardFAN Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 The service is not really that much isolated. If you remove the service plugin from the DVBViewer, the service would not be stopped at all. Luckily all DVBViewer related applications know each other and if a device is used by an app, the rest will not use this adapter. Since i installed the Service i honestly never ever lost a recording - this is a fact since more than 2 years By the way, this new UPNP feature rocks Nero Essentials is not the best choice for dealing with DVB, but you have no really choice if you install a dvd recorder you should use it; at least as upnp client for dvb transmissions streamed by the dvb service. Quote Link to comment
Lars_MQ Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 @hamish_ You're thinking in the right direction. There is a discussion about this in the german part of the forum ( http://www.DVBViewer.info/forum/index.php?...st&p=193137 ). you don't have to understand german, you just have to look at the size of the posts. Most of them deal with possible scenarios and how they could be solved, or they have concepts which could be used to solve certain problems. Just some hints: - conflict management (recording, viewing, timeshift, PiP). - right management (channels, recordings, priorities of clients etc) - distribution of resources - usermanagement - Hardwareclients and so on. Just think about a wife, husband, kid household, a centralized server with 3 DVB-S Cards (one with CAM) and 2 DVB-T Cards. think of programmed recordings, timeshift, PiP, series the wife has to see or she gets nightly headaches for 2 weeks, the channels junior shouldn't see (including recordings of these) and so on... I'm working my way to there... Quote Link to comment
Mr Rimmer Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Just think about a wife, husband, kid household, a centralized server with 3 DVB-S Cards (one with CAM) and 2 DVB-T Cards. think of programmed recordings, timeshift, PiP, series the wife has to see or she gets nightly headaches for 2 weeks, the channels junior shouldn't see (including recordings of these) and so on... I'm working my way to there... Exactly where I am now! Been using Pc for TV viewing and recording for years then I thought I'd found IT when I discovered DVBViewer... a taste of greatness, but one thing that was sadly lacking was an interface to a (wife) friendly front end... then along came XBMC. No more burning DVDs or having to control the computer for her to watch TV... if only they could talk to each other. At last! The Recording Service with uPnP server (which I installed yesterday) get's us to 95%... now to get an EPG on the Xbox for recording and viewing and we will be 99% there. Mix in some conflict management as specified above and we're done. Quote Link to comment
uglyned Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I think that anyone who overlooks the HTPC interface which DVBViewer already has is making a huge mistake. With the excellent Concinnity 3D skin it’s stylish, intuitive and full of useful features. It’s also entirely controllable with a remote control (albeit one with a good few buttons). Something which is easily taken for granted but deserves to be highlighted is that it never fails. It doesn’t crash, bomb, give silly error messages or freeze. It just works. You only have to try some of the other HTPC software to appreciate that. The recording service is a powerful companion for DVBViewer and potentially turns it into a complete PVR solution. As I’ve mentioned before, I think what would benefit its development most right now is bringing both DVBViewer and the Recording service together. Being able to interact with the recording service’s features from the OSD (ie the remote control) in DVBViewer would be great. I’ll put some examples of what I mean below, as well as a few other suggestions which have come to mind while thoroughly testing the suitability of DVBViewer to become my only PVR and media centre application. I have mentioned some of these elsewhere but will include them again here. I do understand though that the recording service is still a beta and not officially a part of DVBViewer. These are just suggestions. - I have the ‘extended exit’ option enabled in DVBViewer but would like an option adding – ‘Exit after current recording completes’. When it’s bedtime I may have a recording still going, but I want the recording to complete and the machine to go into standby when it’s finished. - An option to send details of a timer or EPG event to the EPG search in the recording service would be useful. I would be saying to DVBViewer ‘I like this show. Record this one and any more you find in the future’. Like series link. But again, being able to do this through the OSD using the remote control is important (to my wife, who doesn’t want to use a mouse or website). - In the recording service, it would be nice to be able to set up a timer event to do an automatic search of my EPG search presets. So if I create a new recurring timer event, in the ‘action’ menu alongside ‘record’ and ‘tune only’ I’d like a ‘perform task’ option to be there. Then the recording service would automatically keep my timer list up to date with shows it knows I like, without me having to do anything. - DVBViewer to have the additional Freesat PIDs options in MHW EPG that Lars added to the recording service. Then DVBViewer will update my EPG while I’m watching BBC1 and other regular channels. I don’t need to tune to obscure channels any more. - When I press the ‘record’ button in DVBViewer, the recorded programme file will add what’s already been saved in the timeshift file for this channel to my recording file. - If I press the ‘record’ button twice, DVBViewer records the current programme then stops, rather than just recording for a predetermined amount of time. - If the broadcast time of a show already in my timer list changes, the timer is automatically updated. - UPnP server could share all my videos, pictures and music too? (This one's more a wish than a suggestion) Hope you like some of my ideas! Quote Link to comment
hamish_ Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 Thanks to suggestions here I persevered a bit more with the recording service with some success. I have recordings being scheduled from Digiguide, through dvbv_tvg.exe and into the recording service without ever having to run the DVBViewer app. I've also been able to stream channels to VideoLAN locally. I have come across a few wrinkles, which I'll post in the relevant section, but it's a step closer to my ideal. system. I agree with UglyNed to an extent - it is a shame to lose the DVBViewer UI through using this set-up because it's better adapted to the need to broadcast video than other viewers. I don't share the opinions about it being rock-solid though! I've just about found a combination of filters and settings that makes crashes rare, but I've had to sacrifice the smoothness of my HD playback for that. One of these wrinkles I mentioned finding occurs if I start DVBViewer while the service is recording something. Because I've removed the plugin the stops and starts the service (annoying behaviour to me) it seems to start recording the same thing with a different tuner, leaving no hardware available to watch something live (the reason I opened it). A simple fix would be an option in the viewer to disable all timer functionality. Quote Link to comment
Lakeuk Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 - I have the ‘extended exit’ option enabled in DVBViewer but would like an option adding – ‘Exit after current recording completes’. When it’s bedtime I may have a recording still going, but I want the recording to complete and the machine to go into standby when it’s finished. Both DVBViewer and the recording service already do this via the after recording dropdown which can be updated whilst the programme is still recording Quote Link to comment
uglyned Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 - In the recording service, it would be nice to be able to set up a timer event to do an automatic search of my EPG search presets. So if I create a new recurring timer event, in the ‘action’ menu alongside ‘record’ and ‘tune only’ I’d like a ‘perform task’ option to be there. Then the recording service would automatically keep my timer list up to date with shows it knows I like, without me having to do anything.- DVBViewer to have the additional Freesat PIDs options in MHW EPG that Lars added to the recording service. Then DVBViewer will update my EPG while I’m watching BBC1 and other regular channels. I don’t need to tune to obscure channels any more. Many thanks for the inclusion of these in the latest test version. They work perfectly. I very much appreciate the speed at which all DVBViewer applications develop. Each new version seems to bring with it new features which I find useful. One extra suggestion, sorry! It would be useful for me if somehow the timer list in recording service could identify recording clashes. Maybe display a yellow 'warning' sign by any recordings that are scheduled to clash? Quote Link to comment
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