MHEG-5 support, we need your help

[mobiwan]

Thanks for video!

 

The places using it are increasing though.

 

South Africa is latest

 

http://www.impala.org/deployments

 

Some thoughts. In 2000/2001 RTE was going to use MHP. MHEG5 though is now more used in UK than in 2000. So maybe in 2007 or latest early 2008 RTE decided on MHEG5 instead. http://www.saortv.info/about/mheg5/

Edited February 6, 2011 by mobiwan

[hackbart]

Hi, i'm currently in the fine tuning process of the implementation. The most functions are working fine, but i need some samples from two regions. To implement the PVR Recording lists from the NZ Application i need some streams from New Zealand.

Further on i need a freeview dump from england, because of the IC Streaming feature. I don't think this one will suit directly into the first DVBViewer/MHEG release, but the more data to test i have, the easier it gets to become integrated.

It is not required to have a complete dump, but i need at least every package without audio and video. Everything longer than 5 minutes (which would be about 30-60mb) would be fine. So kiwis, please don't let me down

 

Christian

[uglyned]

Sorry for my ignorance - what's IC streaming?

[hackbart]

Interactive Channels the BBC IPlayer thingy

[dvbrewer]

Interactive Channels the BBC IPlayer thingy

Iplayer isn't on Freeview yet, do you mean Freesat? The only thing MHEG stuff on Freeview AFAIK is one red button video screen variously used for sporting & music events, drama/comedy extras, sometimes quizzes or games for childrens tv as well as MHEG text features, news/sport/weather etc. and info and channel guides on radio channels. If you did mean Freesat I can give a sample of this if you can give instructions.

 

Sorry, totally wrong , iplayer is availiable, but only Freeview HD boxes, possibly only on the Humax T2 so far:

 

http://www.reghardware.com/2011/02/04/humax_tv_portal/

 

So you'd presumably need a T2 card/stick like the Hauppauge Nanostick T2 to get this sample?

Edited March 8, 2011 by dvbrewer

[uglyned]

But we could still do a dump from a satellite channel - iPlayer is available on Freesat too.

 

I've been out today but can do it tomorrow if nobody gets there first.

[dvbrewer]

But we could still do a dump from a satellite channel - iPlayer is available on Freesat too.

I think it's probably different, Christian already has access to 28.2 sat I think.

Edited March 9, 2011 by dvbrewer

[uglyned]

Actually thought about this some more and a dump from a standard Mux will do.

 

Although the iPlayer is only available on T2 boxes, it's available through the red button on BBC1 - therefore being transmitted on a T mux.

[MaKa_]

I can provide a sample of BBCA Mux Freeview (DVB-T) from Winter Hill. I can do a full capture with TransEdit, now when you say without video and audio, de-selecting all mpeg2 video and audio will still result in a usable file for your testing purposes?

 

BBCB Mux (HD T2) would be wholly useless as it doesn't broadcast the red button (BBCi).

 

iPlayer itself is a separate program, its implementation is down to a manufacturer. Essentially just streaming from the internet, like a PC, PS3 etc would. I believe DVB-C is different though.

[Kiwi_Tim]

Hi, i'm currently in the fine tuning process of the implementation. The most functions are working fine, but i need some samples from two regions. To implement the PVR Recording lists from the NZ Application i need some streams from New Zealand.

Further on i need a freeview dump from england, because of the IC Streaming feature. I don't think this one will suit directly into the first DVBViewer/MHEG release, but the more data to test i have, the easier it gets to become integrated.

It is not required to have a complete dump, but i need at least every package without audio and video. Everything longer than 5 minutes (which would be about 30-60mb) would be fine. So kiwis, please don't let me down

 

Christian

 

I can send you some recordings from New Zealand. Does it matter whether its from DVB-S or DVB-T? The satellite transmission are standard definition, whereas terrestrial is HD.

 

Do I need to upload samples to this topic by attachment or some other webpage? How long do you want the samples to be (2-5 minutes?). Do you want all available channels sampled?

 

There are a few extra channels on DVB-S that aren't present on DVB-T, so I'm guessing you'd like samples of them as well.

 

Tim

 

New Zealand

[Kiwi_Tim]

Hi Christian,

 

I have a zipped sample of 30 seconds of New Zealand DVB-T for all current channels. Hope this is what you want. If you need something different, please let me know. It is a 200MB file, but my upload limit for DVBV forum is 512K. How do you want me to transport the file to you?

 

Tim

New Zealand

Edited March 11, 2011 by Kiwi_Tim

[Kiwi_Tim]

here is a link to the zipped file of recordings of all NZ DVB-T channels

 

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HZEIQXEY

 

Tim

 

New Zealand

[hackbart]

Thanks,

 

but this is not that what we need You might try the following: Download Transedit (from the members section), select a dvb-t transponder which contains some channels. Then press analyze and select all non audio/video pids listed on the right. After this you can press the record button. A 4-8 minute stream should do the job, zipped it's less than 40mb i suppose. If you have the ability to upload 1gb it would be cool, if you could record the whole transponder.

 

Christian

[Kiwi_Tim]

Thanks,

 

If you have the ability to upload 1gb it would be cool, if you could record the whole transponder.

 

Christian

 

 

Here are links to the streams from each of the 3 transponders for NZ terrestrial TV

 

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CA5RQV7G

 

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YTNNWJ0X

 

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Y55LXTFR

 

Tim

New Zealand

[hackbart]

Thanks, this is more than enough The Good news is, that it works fine - i will create a small video in the next days. The bad news is i still have to figure out how to get the required informations out of the crid:// informations.

 

Christian

[hackbart]

As promised, a small video which shows the mheg5 app running:

 

 

Christian

[dvbrewer]

As promised, a small video which shows the mheg5 app running:

 

Christian

Very interesting Christian, thanks . Will the starting/scheduling recordings from the MHEG EPG actually work (not that there is anything wrong with the DVBViewer recording options of course )?

[hackbart]

Well this was the reason why i was in heavy need of the recordings. While the Australian Freeview recordings should work from scratch, the application from new zealand delivers only content reference identificators. So you only receive crid://tv3.co.nz/30169 as programming information, paired with an additional series/episode flag.

 

Christian

[dvbrewer]

Well this was the reason why i was in heavy need of the recordings. While the Australian Freeview recordings should work from scratch, the application from new zealand delivers only content reference identificators. So you only receive crid://tv3.co.nz/30169 as programming information, paired with an additional series/episode flag.

 

Christian

OK, well good luck at getting it working then .

[hackbart]

I hope so, but i also think it is wise to publish the engine even if it is not working in particular with the nz application. It will come sooner or later anyway, but hey all other Mheg Applications work fine

 

Christian

[RedDwarf]

I did a recording of the BBC Freeview transponder for you with BBC1, BBC2, BBC3, BBC News and CBBC channel for your testing in case there are any differences between different regions. There are multiple references to MHEG-5 in the transport stream. It's about 4 minutes long and 500MB and at least BBC1 has subtitled speech. I had to split it because it's too big to upload in one part. It's 7-zipped at maximum compression down to 415MB.

 

I have checked it to make sure there are no CRC or continuity errors.

 

Md5 file hashes to ensure a none corrupt download.

0c4b203cbd7398f6e42ee7c1b367c4b1 *UK Sutton Coldfield 634166 03-28 23-08-18.7z.001
5ccec4c859c5a277a11b7ed9818a4e5b *UK Sutton Coldfield 634166 03-28 23-08-18.7z.002
24272f04c2eed33b0ad8cada75273e4c *UK Sutton Coldfield 634166 03-28 23-08-18.7z.003

 

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=M5M6OCGO

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HE70CXSZ

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=48NXI1IG

[hackbart]

Thanks the first file does not seem to be available

 

Christian

[RedDwarf]

I don't know why that was, Megaupload does seem to have problems at times. Did you managed to get it?

[SeanB]

I decided to buy the MHEG-5 add-on as I figured it would come in handy for RTÉ Saorview and BBC Freesat.

 

The following video gives an idea of how it looks on Saorview, with me navigating randomly through pages and sub-pages and also show the few issues mentioned below:

 

 

In my short use of the extension, I've come across the following issues:

 

1. Colour Buttons - I have not figured out how to "push" a colour. For example, when it says "Press BLUE for the RTÉ Guide", how do I press the blue button from my keyboard? My DVB's remote does not have the colour buttons either.
   
2. Broadcast preview - As shown in the video clip, when I go int the MHEG-5 service, the live broadcast becomes a small picture. However, as soon as I change page, it stretches out, only showing a small crop. Interestingly, when I view a full-screen page such as the Sea weather and leave the page, the live broadcast preview picture shows up fine until exit the MHEG-5.
   
3. Bringing it up - This took me a while to figure out. Like Teletext, EPG, etc. there should be a dedicated button added to bring up the MHEG-5, instead of replacing the 'ESC' key's OSD menu.
   

Edited May 10, 2011 by SeanB

[hackbart]

1. Thats easy, the Color buttons are assigned by default to F5 (Red), F6 (Green), F7 (Yellow), F8 (Blue). You can reassign them in the options under input.

2. Well this seems to be a problem of the rendering mechanism. It might be great if you start the DVBViewer with parameter -debug, open the mheg application of the channel and reproduce the problem. Then you could use the support tool to create the support.zip, which contains the debug information

3. To be honest i'm also not that happy how the mheg integration in the OSD works. At the moment there are a bunch of controls required, which we mapped to the already existing OSD functions. Once the mheg engine started the application the following keys (once pressed) are send if pressed:

UP 
DOWN
LEFT
RIGHT
0
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
SELECT
CANCEL
HELP
RED
GREEN
YELLOW
BLUE
TEXT

// IC Streaming (coming up next release)
STOP
PLAY
PAUSE
SKIPFWD
SKIPBACK
FASTFWD
REWIND 
PLAYPAUSE

// New Zealand/Australian profile only
EPG 
// Australian profile only
INFO

 

If the key is not used inside the mheg app, it will be passed through the original osd system. I guess this is the regular handling also done by every Freeview STB. The most nagging issue is that you can not open the regular OSD, once Mheg took over control.

Anyway i'm open for suggestions - as far as i remember there is already a thread concerning features.

 

Christian

PS: The iPlayer is progressing - i suppose next release you can watch streams provided by BBC. At least the British users are able to watch them...

[mobiwan]

On LG xxLD450 series there is the options in setup menu:

1) Use MHEG5 for Text button on remote (no Teletext if MHEG5 is on the Multiplex) always. (This is UK Freeview Mode)

2) Use Text Button to load MHEG5 or EBU Teletext by Broadcast definition (Irish Saorview mode, and works with Freeview)

 

In both modes if the Multiplex has no MHEG5, or you are on Analogue, Text button always loads EBU Teletext if exists.

 

On Irish Saorview in Mode 1

All channels load RTE MHEG5 based text if you press text

 

On Irish Saorview in Mode 2

Only channels meant to have the MHEG5 text (RTE1, RTE2, RTE News now) load MHEG5 Text and TV3, TG4 and 3e load EBU Teletext when you press Text button.

 

I suggest that DVBViewer do the the same:

Setup options Data section add the Mode1/Mode2 option (=MHEG Text has priority). The Default should be Mode 2 as this mode will work with Saorview, Saorsat, Freeview or Freesat.

 

Note that "strict" interpretation of the UK D-book for Freeview means Mode1.

Any interpretation of RTE Clarifications of "Nordig2.2 with MHGE5 UK profile" (=Saorview) means Mode2 needed to pass certification.

 

IMO this change makes it logical and the normal OSD should work. Non-Text MHEG5 applications use the coloured buttons (F5 (Red), F6 (Green), F7 (Yellow), F8 (Blue) already as they should). Some channels should automatically load a related MHEG application which is not the regular MHEG5 text entry page (Radio station, special channels, time shared RTEjr/RTE1+1, Cbeebies/BBC3, Cbbc/BBC4 etc )

 

 

IMO it's reasonable that if in MHEG application you press Text to exit to have any other OSD. That's the way my TV works. Buttons such as volume still work, but without OSD, but any non-MHEG button other than Off or Text to exit doesn't work. I think that is way to go.

 

 

Thanks Hackbart

 

P.S. The Keyboard /Remote editor is a little confusing and indeed there are many areas where the same keys can map to different functions as the functions are not simultaneously available. I will do a separate post on this.

[RedDwarf]

PS: The iPlayer is progressing - i suppose next release you can watch streams provided by BBC. At least the British users are able to watch them...

Nice one! That sounds like promising news and I look forward to trying that.

[satesco]

Hi All,

 

I try to use MHEG-5 but do not know how to be enabled it on Windows 7 64 bit.In DVBViewer folder I have two.dll files:1."mheg_decoder.dll",2."mheg5.dll".When I tried to register first. dll{mheg decoder.dll},I received the following message:

,

the other .dll{mheg-5}is registered.Also in the same folder I can not see MHEG-5 engine.Perhaps because of this EPG has remained the same as before the installation MHEP-5's?and it looks like this:

What must be installed to activate this plugin/function?Or what I did wrong?Any help is welcome.

Mention that MHEG-5 is taken official from members section.

Thanks in advance

[amontillado]

In the email you get after buying it you get download details, its an executable so no need to register anything.

In the same email you get the key with which you can activate it.

[satesco]

Hi amontillado,

Thank you for your prompt response.I did as you say when I installed it.But then why can't see MHEG-5 interface and remained EPG known?

When choosing channels should not appear MHEG?This does not happen to me when changing channels.Why?

.

[hackbart]

You can not register regular dll's like mheg-decoder, so it is okay that the error appears!

 

I'm not sure if you know what mheg5 stands for, it is a videotext replacement formerly used in the UK, Ireland, Hongkong, Australia and New Zealand. If a channel contains mheg, the application is automatically loaded.

[satesco]

You can not register regular dll's like mheg-decoder, so it is okay that the error appears!

 

I'm not sure if you know what mheg5 stands for, it is a videotext replacement formerly used in the UK, Ireland, Hongkong, Australia and New Zealand. If a channel contains mheg, the application is automatically loaded.

 

Then means for the european providers other than english zone this tool is not valid?If this is true, then users should be warned!It would be a pity to give money to an application that you never use!I hope this assumption is not true:(

[amontillado]

uhmm.. I don't want to offend you, but you yourself should know what you're buying before you buy it right?

 

and yes, except for some exceptions MHEG is for the most part only usefull for users in the english zone.

 

btw.. I actually live in the Netherlands where MHEG is not used at all by the Dutch providers but for me it was worth the money even if I can only use it for the BBC.

[satesco]

ok,but this tool is not available,at least,for english channels on Astra 2 A, B-28.2 E?

[hackbart]

Hu? How about the BBC channels on Astra 28?

[satesco]

Hu? How about the BBC channels on Astra 28?

 

I tried BBC News on Astra 28 E, but MHEG-5 does not works.In principle it should work if this tool is made for the english zone.I've seen here: http://www.DVBViewer.tv/forum/topic/45388-DVBViewer-pro-48/,it is true for Germany but even on these german channels not appear MHEG.If it works there would not be available every where in Europe?It's s true for Germany,as it is mentioned there,that only goes through only (via Technisat Multytext on Astra 19.2°E?.Then with other dvb-s2 cards we can not use this tool?In other words only with Technisat DVB-S2 card, we can benefit from MHEG!?Or I have misunderstood when this tool was presented with the new version of DVBViewer 4.8?

[hackbart]

Sure it works, open the OSD once BBC is running for a few seconds. And if you do not post the support Information http://www.DVBViewer.tv/forum/index.php?showtopic=2210, we can not help. I am still not sure if you know what Mheg is.

[hackbart]

Hi, this is not a mockup and it works so far quite good - except the fact that streaming is not implemented yet Anyway i'm quite confident that we got this working till the next bigger release..

 

 

Christian

[satesco]

Unfortunately iPlayer is dedicated only to UK users.What bitter irony, even in a top field of globalization, the world is still divided between us and them!

[amontillado]

Not all content is dedicated to UK, radio, bbc news and sport are also available to outside uk (also see http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/help/outside_the_uk/outsideuk)

 

Will this also be available in DVBViewer ?