DiSEqC incompatibility with Hauppauge WinTV-Nova-S-USB2 ?

[leecovuk]

Hello,

 

I bought DVBViewer a few days ago and I hope an expert can kindly advise me.

 

My device is the Hauppauge WinTV-Nova-S-USB2 on Windows Vista Home Premium 32 bit.

I have downloaded and installed the latest driver package from the Hauppauge site.

I have 4 satellites via an external DiSEqC switch fed down a single coax cable.

 

My usual DiSEqC 1.0 port allocations in my Technomate receiver are:

A= Astra2 28.2 East

B= Astra1 19.2 East

C= Hotbird 13.0 East

D= Hispasat 30.0 West

 

I am connected directly to the coax with no loopthrough in place. No plugging or unplugging happens when any related equipment is powered on.

 

The Hauppauge WinTV software seems to be working correctly for all 4 satellites.

 

The problem is, DVBViewer seems only capable of tuning to Astra 2 and Hotbird.

When using the 'Transponder List' in 'Channel Scan', it appears the following is happening :

 

PosA/OptA and PosB/OptA are both on Astra 2.

PosA/OptB and PosB/OptB are both on Hotbird.

 

Astra 1 and Hispasat appear to be inaccessible.

 

I have no previous understanding of the 'Pos/Opt' port concept, so what does my experience mean?

Is some DiSEqC switching happening but not all of it?

Can I somehow configure to receive all 4 satellites?

Or is my device fundamentally incompatible with DVBViewer?

 

Thankyou for any expert advice,

Lee

UK

[fundom]

1- Go to Channel List Editor & delete all satellite appearing in the list.

2- Start TransEdit & first configure it.

3- You will see listed transponders.

4- Use EDIT button & allott diseqc ports to your satellites as you wish & each time press APPLY button.

 

Above should solve your problem.

[leecovuk]

Thanks for your reply, however Transedit seems to treat the satellites in exactly the same way.

 

I used the Transedit version which can be downloaded as a plugin during the DVBViewer set up process.

I didn't see an 'edit' button, but I set the DiSEqC ports in there on the appropriate satellites and each time hit the 'apply' button.

Unfortunately however an 'analyse' or 'scan' in Transedit shows the same results as in DVBViewer.

 

The set up I used in Transedit was :

 

A/A Astra2 (my usual port 1)

B/A Astra 1 (my usual port 2)

A/B Hotbird (my usual port 3)

B/B Hispasat (my usual port 4)

 

Have you or anybody else got any other ideas?

 

Maybe my device simply is incompatible with anything other than the supplied WinTV software? I had the same unresolved trouble in ProgDVB.

I have no idea how to ensure I am using a 'BDA driver' or if one is available. I assume that is central to all of this.

 

Thanks again,

Lee

UK

[Griga]

Please attach the file TransEdit.ini here (see Info -> Configuration Folder in TransEdit), so I can see if your device has been detected correctly.

[leecovuk]

Hello and thanks, Griga.

 

The .ini is attached to this post.

 

I wish I had never bought this device! The only software that DiSEqC seems to work with is the supplied WinTV. WinTV unfortunately is very limited.

 

Lee

UK

TransEdit.ini

Edited August 7, 2010 by leecovuk

[Griga]

Vendor.0=2

means that TransEdit has detected the Device as "Hauppauge" and applies the according (Hauppauge specific) method for sending DiSEqC commands.

 

The problem is, DVBViewer seems only capable of tuning to Astra 2 and Hotbird.

So DiSEqC works partly, but the Pos part of the DiSEqC command seems to be ignored somehow... maybe fine-tuning the commands in the DiSEqC Editor (DiSEqC = Extended mode) helps. You can try to use the "Committed (unchanged)" command, or let TransEdit repeat the command after a delay of e.g. 500 ms.

[leecovuk]

Thanks again Griga.

 

I'm really strugggling to understand how to configure in the DiSEqC editor. I'm reading the online instructions but am finding it very complicated.

To be sure I'm doing it correctly, can you possibly offer a config file? Or maybe just a screenshot or exact list of the commands that I should try in the editor.

ie I can then copy or replicate that and be sure I'm trying it correctly.

 

Many thanks,

Lee

[Griga]

I would first try to let TransEdit send the B/A command for Astra 19.2° East twice with a delay in between (see screenshot). Select DiSEqC = Extended, enter the commands, click Apply and scan...

[leecovuk]

Thanks Griga, I do appreciate your help.

 

However still no change or luck.

 

I've also just discovered something called 'DVBLink TVSource' and a 'Preview' of it but that seems unable to drive my device properly either. The list of software which fails to properly handle my DiSEqC is now DVBViewer, ProgDVB, DVBLink TVSource Preview, Media Portal and Windows Media Center.

 

This really is driving me towards insanity.

 

Obviously I need to wait to hear from Hauppauge support, but what is your gut feeling regarding only WinTV being able to properly control the DiSEqC?

Have I unfortunately purchased an evil non-compatible device?

Might there be a power supply or hardware fault?

 

Annoyingly, I probably have no right to compain to Hauppauge seeing as WinTV can happily do its stuff. WinTV however is next to useless for me, as my usage will simply be too tedious in WinTV.

 

I really hope it's me who's doing something wrong, but I fear not.

 

Here's hoping for a miracle!

 

Lee

UK

Edited August 8, 2010 by leecovuk

[Griga]

Well, it's a strange problem, because obviously DiSEqC works, but only the Opt part of the command, not the Pos part. Both are represented by a bit in the command which is sent by TransEdit, or with other words, both are sent simultaneously. But the switch only responds to the Pos bit.

 

Usually I'd say the switch and the device don't cooperate properly, some timing or power supply issue, dunno... however, there must be a way to make it work, as proved by the Hauppauge WinTV software. But without having the source code or a possibility to visualize the output (e.g. with a DiSEqC monitor connected to the antenna socket of the WinTV-Nova-S-USB2) it's very difficult to find out where the difference lies.

 

So I'm running out of ideas... anyway, here is another Hauppauge & DiSEqC related topic:

 

http://www.DVBViewer.tv/forum/topic/28267-no-4-way-diseqc-with-vista/page__view__findpost__p__223347

 

Which value is assigned to the registry entry on your PC? And another question: Which DiSEqC switch is involved? Maybe the technical specifications are available somewhere in the web...

[leecovuk]

Hello again Griga,

 

I have no idea which brand / model the DiSEqC switch is. I could try to track down the installer in the hope that he knows or remembers.

 

Unfortunately I don't seem to have any registry entries matching or similar to the one on the other topic.

There are of course numerous Hauppauge related registry entries, but I didn't see anything like that.

 

As a last attempt I just tried uninstalling everything and re-installing the driver and DVBViewer using 'compatibility mode for Windows XP Service Pack 2'. (and running DVBViewer and/or Transedit as such)

However no different.

 

I think the time has come to admit defeat and face I am stuck with a highly proprietry piece of hardware !

 

If Hauppauge get back to me and get it working, or point me to a magical driver, I'll post back with the details.

 

Thanks for now; you've been most helpful.

 

Lee

UK

[leecovuk]

I've just come back to ask ...

 

Is there any clear evidence or firm knowledge that any of the following USB cards work properly with DVBViewer on Windows Vista Home Premium 32 bit?

I could obviously search and take a guess, but I want to be sure if I decide to buy another card.

 

Compro VideoMate S500

Technisat SkyStar USB 2 (apparently has a bundled version of DVBViewer so presumably works with the normal version)

Technisat SkyStar USB 2 HD CI

 

Thanks,

Lee

[Griga]

Is there any clear evidence or firm knowledge that any of the following USB cards work properly with DVBViewer

For the TechniSat stuff yes. However, personally I wouldn't buy TechniSat devices that are relabeled Twinhan/AzureWave, resp. only if I can give them back. There are unsolvable discontinuity (dropout) problems with some mainboards/systems, as reported by several users.

 

If you are still interested: The Hauppauge DiSEqC problem seems to be solved. A German user reported a similar problem and compared the DVBViewer and WinTV DiSEqC output by using an oscilloscope.

 

Things go wrong if a switch responds to (digital) DiSEqC commands *and* to the old (analogue) toneburst commands. Hauppauge cards issue both, and DVBViewer / TransEdit always set PosA as toneburst in this case... there you are.

 

Here I've attached a (functionally restricted) TransEdit test version with a fix. The next DVBViewer / TransEdit releases will also contain this fix.

[leecovuk]

Thanks Griga,

 

I will give it a go later and report back.

 

Over recent weeks, I decided to abandon the USB card in favour of a Hauppauge WinTV-NOVA-HD-S2 PCI card. That seems to work fine with DVBViewer, ProgDVB and DVB Dream. Yes, I have worked my way through quite a lot of technology and expense!

The only problem seems to be that I usually get different scan results each time I scan, even if done immediately after a previous one. I haven't yet reached any firm conclusions on this with DVBViewer, Transedit or the other viewers. It may be that the 'NIT' data is not being consistently processed when used. Signal strength or quality however seem not to be issues.

 

Anyway, I will dig out the USB card and give your file a go. I will come back, probably either today or tomorrow.

 

Lee

UK

[leecovuk]

Hello Griga,

 

I've given it a test.

First, I installed the USB card with latest Hauppauge drivers.

 

I also used the program from fastsatfinder.com to load new transponder lists in :-

C:\Program Files\DVBViewer\Transponders

and

C:\ProgramData\CMUV\DVBViewer\Transponders

(I haven't worked out when one location is used over the over)

 

I put your Transedit_test.exe in C:\Program Files\DVBViewer\ and ran it at its default settings.

 

Scanning was showing channels matching what I expected for each satellite using DiSEqC 1.0:

Astra2 A/A, Astra1 B/A, Hotbird A/B, Hispasat B/B.

 

However, for example, the Astra 1 scan stopped after 69/85 transponders, and the Hotbird scan stopped after 86/102 transponders. This happened each time I ran a scan. The tool didn't appear to freeze or time-out; the scans just didn't continue.

Does this suggest a problem, or is Transedit_test limited / restricted?

 

Thanks,

Lee

UK

 

PS Let me know if you want me to also test your Transedit_test with my Hauppauge PCI card.

Edited August 26, 2010 by leecovuk

[Derrick]

Does this suggest a problem, or is Transedit_test limited / restricted?

 

..haven't tried this test version but I don't think that there is a transponder limit

 

It's probably a driver problem. You could play with the timeouts (scanner2) and the tuning options (stop stream ...)

[leecovuk]

ok, thanks Derrick.

If I find a way to get the scans to complete, I'll post back.

 

Thanks also for your reply on my other topic and the channel lists; I'll get round to that when we're done with this testing here.

[Griga]

the scans just didn't continue.

What about the Stop Button in the Scanner Window? Does it turn greyed (disabled) when the scan doesn't continue?

 

Does this suggest a problem

Probably yes.

 

or is Transedit_test limited / restricted?

Yes, but not in this way.

 

Scanning was showing channels matching what I expected for each satellite using DiSEqC 1.0:

Astra2 A/A, Astra1 B/A, Hotbird A/B, Hispasat B/B.

That means DiSEqC works as expected? Good to know... however, it won't solve the problem in DVBViewer, even if you could export the scan results (which isn't possible with the test version). You'll have to wait or the next DVBViewer release.

[leecovuk]

Hello again Griga,

 

Yes, the DiSEqC side of things worked.

 

Regarding the scans stopping, yes, the 'stop' button was greyed out, as if the scan had just come to a natural end. However with x amount of transponders left to scan.

I don't know if your German friend can confirm this in his/her experience.

 

Lee

Edited August 27, 2010 by leecovuk

[Griga]

However with x amount of transponders left to scan.

I guess TransEdit skips the DVB-S2 transponders (the blue ones in the list) assuming that your DVB-S device can't cope with it. Go to settings -> hardware and and tick that "DVB-S2 Device" checkbox. This kind of cheating will let TransEdit additionally scan the DVB-S2 transponders (most likely in vain).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVB-S2

[leecovuk]

Go to settings -> hardware and and tick that "DVB-S2 Device" checkbox. This kind of cheating will let TransEdit additionally scan the DVB-S2 transponders (most likely in vain).

Indeed yes, I've now tried what you suggested and the scan continues across all transponders.

I assume you can adjust your fix / program to deal with this. ie the need to select it as a DVB-S2 device conflicts, I think, with what this device is capable of.

 

http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/site/products/data_novasusb2.html

 

Do you also want me to test with my Hauppauge WinTV-NOVA-HD-S2 PCI card? Or will that serve no purpose with your fix? DiSEqC 1.0 seems fine with the official DVBViewer or official Transedit.

 

Lee

Edited August 27, 2010 by leecovuk

[Griga]

I think, with what this device is capable of.

Does TransEdit find channels on DVB-S2 transponders with the WinTV-Nova-S-USB2? Hauppauge clearly states

 

Watch free-to-air digital satellite TV (DVB-S) programmes on your PC

 

which IMO means the device is restricted to DVB-S. They don't say anything about DVB-S2 or HDTV. They usually do if the device supports it. Trying to receive DVB-S2 with a pure DVB-S device is hopeless, because it's a hardware thing. You could as well try to receive FM radio with a vacuum cleaner. That's why TransEdit is supposed to skip DVB-S2 transponders in this case.

 

Do you also want me to test with my Hauppauge WinTV-NOVA-HD-S2 PCI card?

Thanks, but I have this card here in my PC. However, I've never noticed the DiSEqC problem, because my 4/1 DiSEqC switch ignores toneburst signals.

[leecovuk]

Hello Griga,

 

I agree that this USB device is not designed for DVB-S2. I implied I wasn't sure, but no, it isn't.

 

Regarding using Transedit_test with 'DVB-S2 device' selected : I have just scanned and looked through the results in the scan window. No, DVB-S2 channels do not appear.

 

What I meant was, from my point of view, with 'DVB-S2 device' not selected, I wouldn't expect the scanning to 'stop' as it appeared to do, even if it makes technical sense. I think many users would be confused by that, and it might be preferable for the scan to appear to complete fully across all transponders.

Or, maybe you can program some kind of message to appear saying something like 'x transponders ignored because they are DVB-S2'.

Do you see what I mean?

 

 

Just to clarify regarding the PCI card, I have no DiSEqC 1.0 problems with the official DVBViewer or official Transedit. I was just offering to test with your Transedit_test in case you would benefit.

Edited August 27, 2010 by leecovuk

[Griga]

I think many users would be confused by that,

Particularly those who don't read the exclamation-marked parts of the manual...

[leecovuk]

Particularly those who don't read the exclamation-marked parts of the manual...

Ouch!

However, to me the issue we're talking about is not explicitly clear there. Am I stupid? I suppose that has to be a subjective view.

 

Edited August 27, 2010 by leecovuk

[Griga]

subjective view.

Of course. Newbies usually need more hints / messages etc. Once you are experienced they get annoying, like parents telling the same thing again and again...