BBC MHEG Bug - wrong MHEG startup screen

[groovyclam]

I am using 4.8 on WinXP SP3 with a DVB-T USB device in the UK to receive FreeView.

 

The new MHEG seems to be working 90% for me so far - except erratically on ALL the BBC channels.

 

There seems to be an issue with which MHEG overlay DVBViewer chooses to startup on BBC Channels. Sometimes it starts the correct one, and sometimes it starts the wrong one.

 

Some background:

 

In the UK there is a specific channel broadcast on DVB-T which is just a placeholder for the BBC MHEG service. The channel is broadcast on its own channel number of "105" and is called "BBC Red Button". If a user tunes to it they see a full-screen MHEG informing them they can press "red" on the TV remote at any time on any BBC channel to load interactive MHEG stuff specific for whatever BBC channel they are on. It is a pretty useless channel when taken by itself.

 

In DVBViewer some of the time when I tune to a BBC channel ( in my example I am using "BBC News" ) it starts the correct MHEG overlay as seen in the screen capture below:

 

 

But some of the time ( and I can't work out a sequence of events to work out why - it seems random ) DVBViewer will start the wrong MHEG overlay and overlay the full-screen MHEG for channel "BBC Red Button" that I described above as seen in the screen capture below:

 

 

Note that the above channel is still "BBC News" - I just flicked up a channel and back down to "BBC News" but DVBViewer loaded the wrong MHEG overlay this time.

 

This random behaviour happens on all BBC channels ( both video and radio ) in that sometimes the correct MHEG overlay starts and sometimes the "BBC Red Button" full-screen overlay starts. It might be something to do with all BBC channels being on the same MUX in the UK on DVB-T.

[xtonys]

Hi

 

Interesting to see on your screenshot of incorrect BBC News didnt shrink the video image to the designated window.

Just a point to check - the Freeview regional switchover and retune may have some effect on channel line-ups, and may affect some users of MHEG. Does your TV or STB work ok with red button after a retune? A number of TV and STB manufacturers are releasing firmware updates related to DSO.

 

I believe the MHEG engine used with DVBViewer is an off the shelf package?

If so, it may be worth checking if there are any patches or new versions available related to DSO, DVB-T2 and MHEG?

 

 

There is alot of related information here globally...

http://www.google.co.uk/#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=national+switchover+mheg&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&fp=d1007c4880f2cdbd

 

There are some known issues related to Windows systems and some DVB-T cards

http://www.google.co.uk/#q=national+switchover+mheg&hl=en&prmd=ivns&ei=YaqyTbiPDIWq8QOG9rWWDA&start=10&sa=N&fp=d1007c4880f2cdbd

 

Is the DVBViewer MHEG engine entirely self-containted software, or does it use some Windows files?

Vista required an update for DVB-T post switchover. XP is older still.

http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051565

 

I have reported numerous issues to Microsoft R&D related to Windows 7 and MHEG (amoungst other things). Some issues are down to them, some to the tuner card manufacturers needing to release updated drivers to handle switchover. Perhaps worth checking for any new tuner card drivers?

 

 

There was a similar issue on Win7 MCE when MHEG was enabled in registry.

I was tested using DVB-S and a brand new Blackgold DVB-T/T2 at the time.

Thought I would mention as some background here related to MHEG in UK. May help with regards the MHEG engine used?

- BBC One England - Wouldnt show "press red" overlay, but would work if you press red.

- BBC Two England - Woundnt show "press red" overlay, but sometimes worked

- BBC Two Scotland - Always put the "press red" overlay on screen and worked

- BBC News - Always put the "press red" overlay on screen and worked

- BBC stream channels wouldnt prompt the "press red" overlay, and MHEG rarely worked at all. Sports multiscreen especially.

 

Have you tried going to 301 or 302 and see if you are prompted to press red?

If you can get MHEG overlay to work on 301/302, you could try out the blue menu options for alternative audio streams, etc

4music and heart radio are other good users of red button with competition overlays, channel switching, etc

 

 

BBC and other broadcasters would be following the white paper on specification for DVB-T and DVB-T2 transmissions in the UK related to MHEG service. There have been specification changes since On-Digital days, where many STBs failed to fully function under Freeview.

 

Hope this background information helps.

 

I would also test MHEG services, but I cant login to members area to download 4.8 this weekend.

 

Related to MHEG service on satellite (Astra 2A/Eurobird1 "Freesat")...

http://www.tvbay.co.uk/news/BBC_RED_BUTTON_REDESIGN_TO_INCREASE_CONNECTED_TV_USAGE_VIA_MHEG_INTERACTION_CHANNEL/1515.html

 

Does the MHEG engine used allow for MHEG-IC services, such as BBC iPlayer?

Edited April 23, 2011 by xtonys

[John D]

I get the red-button problem described in the first posting too. But with a slight difference. There is no video insert in my version of the second (wrong) screen. From this screen, if I press Esc it changes to BBC1, regardless of the channel I was previously watching.

 

In other BBC MHEG displays there is often a video insert, as there should be, and it is a scaled down version of the full screen picture on the channel being watched, as it should be. However, after skipping from one MHEG item to another a few times, for example reading the news headlines, the video insert is no longer scaled, just a fragment of the full-screen picture. That is wrong.

[mr_chaela]

I get the red-button problem described in the first posting too. But with a slight difference. There is no video insert in my version of the second (wrong) screen. From this screen, if I press Esc it changes to BBC1, regardless of the channel I was previously watching.

Exactly the same here, but only on terrestrial.

On 28.2 the red button logo on top rhs does not show, but pressing the red button works.

Strange thing is that it was all working fine on the first day of instal, started to go pear shaped on the second day (with no changes to the system whatsoever).

[xtonys]

Hi

 

Its not just us experiencing problemsn with BBC MHEG services....

Digitalspy users with regular STBs are also having issues periodically.

 

BBCi technical team are available...

They're on Twitter (@BBCRedButton) TWITTER

 

Although this thread is 2009, it shows there is a two-way process to keep viewers working properly as updates at BBC occur...

Depending on the MHEG engine now implemented with v4.8, it could be worth the DVBViewer development guys discussing the issue with BBCi tech team.

It may be the MHEG engine needs adjusting in a similar way to firmware updates on STBs, such as Humax etc?

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=994756

 

This is a good refernece powerpoint

www.besindia.com/ppt/BESExpo2008_1.1.ppt

 

The International MHEG Promotion Alliance is a not-for-profit organisation whose principal aim is to promote the use of the MHEG-5 international standard in digital TV worldwide.

For more information see www.impala.org.

Edited April 24, 2011 by xtonys

[groovyclam]

Just to give a clear idea of what should be happening on all the BBC Channels and MHEG for the DVBViewer developers I will give a run through of the correct MHEG startups for each BBC Channel ( since I think the developers are not in the UK ).

 

In the UK via DVB-T ( called "FreeView" to the general population ) the BBC TV and Radio channels ( and their MHEG data ) all broadcast on the same MUX.

 

There are 9 channels that carry both video and audio, these are:

 

BBC One

BBC Two

BBC Three

BBC Four

CBeebies

CBBC

BBC Parliament

BBC News

301

 

There are 11 radio channels ( carry only audio ):

 

Radio 1

Radio 1Xtra

Radio 2

Radio 3

Radio 4

Radio 4 Extra

Radio 5 Live

Radio 5 Live Sports Extra

6 Music

BBC World Service

BBC Asian Network

 

When DVBViewer tunes to a BBC Radio Channel it should automatically launch the MHEG overlay. Each radio channel has it's own unique specific MHEG overlay. The MHEG overlay for "Radio 4" should launch AUTOMATICALLY and look like this:

 

 

Each of the other radio channels MHEG overlays look similar to the one above but the channel logo and channel name will be correct for each radio channel.

 

Now for the BBC video channels:

 

BBC One

BBC Two

BBC Parliament

BBC News

 

These four channels operate in a similar manner to each other where MHEG is concerned.

 

If flagged during broadcast then the small top-right "Press Red" logo should automatically appear as seen below:

 

 

Sometimes this "Press Red" is not flagged to appear automatically by the BBC on those channels, however in all cases pressing "Red" or "launch MHEG" should launch the standard BBC digital teletext service on each of these channels which will look like this:

 

 

CBBC, CBeebies, BBC Three and BBC Four are a little more complicated.

These four channels share broadcast space.

"CBBC" and "BBC Three" share the same video and audio PIDs - CBBC broadcasts from 07:00 to 19:00 on the PIDs and BBC Three broadcasts from 19:00 to 07:00 on these PIDs

Similarly "CBeebies" and "BBC Four" share their PIDs, again CBeebies broadcasts from 07:00 to 19:00 and BBC Four broadcasts from 19:00 to 07:00 on the same PIDs.

 

If I tune to "BBC Three" when it is NOT broadcasting ( from 07:00 to 19:00 ) then the following MHEG overlay should automatically launch:

 

 

If I tune to "BBC Four" when it is NOT broadcasting ( from 07:00 to 19:00 ) then the following MHEG overlay should automatically launch:

 

 

Similar MHEGs should launch for CBeebies and CBBC when they are not broadcasting but the wording at the top will say "CBBC" and "CBeebies" are off air.

 

When BBC Three and BBC Four ARE broadcasting ( between 19:00 to 07:00 ) then pressing "RED" or "launch MHEG" whilst watching those channels should bring up the standard BBC digital teletext service on each of these channels which is the same as for BBC One, BBC Two, BBC Parliament and BBC News shown above:

 

 

When tuning to CBeebies when it is broadcasting ( between 07:00 to 19:00 ) a top right launcher reminder logo should be displayed automatically which looks like this:

 

 

After pressing "Red" or "launch MHEG" then the full-screen Cbeebies MHEG should start which looks like this:

 

 

Similarly for CBBC when it is broadcasting ( from 07:00 to 19:00 ) a top right "Press Red" logo should automatically be shown when I tune to the channel which looks like this:

 

 

And pressing "RED" or "launch MHEG" should bring up the CBBC MHEG start screen which looks like this:

 

 

Channel 301 is also a complicated variation. It is a BBC channel that broadcasts extra content ( live sporting events or music events ) that is usually linked to from across one of the other BBC channel's MHEG screens.

 

For example during Wimbledon Tennis on BBC One - launching the MHEG service on BBC One would pull up the usual MHEG screen for BBC One but one option might say "watch more Wimbledon" - picking this option would AUTOMATICALLY tune the TV to channel 301 ( which would be showing tennis from a different court to BBC One ). Also an MHEG service SPECIFIC for 301 would AUTOMATICALLY launch on top of the 301 video and audio.

I can't give a picture example for this since the BBC are not currently showing an event like this.

 

Overall Theory

==============

 

I am only guessing now ->

 

I suspect the BBC are broadcasting at least 6 different MHEG startups for the video channels and at least 11 different MHEG startups for the radio channels on the SAME MUX.

 

Somehow DVBViewer needs to recognise that each channel ( whether video/audio or just audio ) MUST launch a SPECIFIC MHEG overlay for that channel.

 

Currently DVBViewer seems to launch the correct MHEG overlay for the channel about 25% of the time.

The other 75% of the time it launches the wrong MHEG overlay.

 

When it launches the wrong MHEG overlay it always launches the overlay that is a help screen for the BBC digital MHEG service which looks like this:

 

click here

 

 

I hope this information can help the developers nail down the fixes for MHEG on the BBC Channels.

 

Apart from this bug, MHEG is quite successful on the NON-BBC channels in the UK via DVB-T ( although there is another bug reported elsewhere that audio is being lost on radio channels when the MHEG starts - NOT MUTING but actually losing the audio completely. )

[groovyclam]

My supporttool output is here:

 

click here

 

My system is WinXP SP3 fully patched.

 

My CPU is an old AMD Athlon XP 3000+ running on a ASUS board

 

My GPU is:

 

 

My DVB-T receiver is connected via USB - it is a twin receiver device:

 

[John D]

Wow!

 

I agree with everything that groovyclam says. And I'm glad that he had to do all the hard work not me. This is an impressive posting.

[hackbart]

Nice thanks, first time i see this in action. I will try to check this tomorrow.

 

Christian

[mobiwan]

I expected "multiscreen" to not work at all...

 

Actually it finds the correct hidden video stream when you arrow to Sport Multiscreen or type in 3001 and press enter

 

Then it "crashes" (though video is running till you click dialog)

 

 

support.zip

[xtonys]

I have ınstalled 4.8...

Keen to test MHEG with my setup - Technisat DVB-S2 USB tuners.

I cant activate MHEG at all. Can anyone advise?

My Esc key is setup to activate an OSD menu at present. Is this the problem?

 

I have created a new MHEG group within the Input setup menu.

I want to reallocate red to "press red" to start MHEG, does anyone know what the command is for this?

Also to add commands for blue = "MHEG blue", green = green, yellow buttons, etc. TXT to close MHEG.

 

Thanks

[hackbart]

Okay, the last crash message seem to be somewhere outside the DVBViewer. You might start the DVBViewer in Debug mode (with parameter -debug) and try to provoke the crash. If it is caused by the mheg engine you will see inside the debug.log the last action which has been executed before the crash appears.

 

@xtonys: If you have licensed the Mheg-Plugin and installed it you will be able to start the mheg teletext everywhere it is sent. The behaviour is similar to the Mheg5 capable STB's. Pressing the Red button should open the menu for instance.

 

Christian

[groovyclam]

@xtonys - default keyboard for DVBViewer is F5, F6, F7, F8 is "Red" , "Green", "Yellow", "Blue".

 

Defualt "ESC" behaviour should be the same as "Digital Teletext" on a remote.

[mobiwan]

Okay, the last crash message seem to be somewhere outside the DVBViewer. You might start the DVBViewer in Debug mode (with parameter -debug) and try to provoke the crash. If it is caused by the mheg engine you will see inside the debug.log the last action which has been executed before the crash appears.

 

I will try it.

 

I suspect it's something to do with switching transponder/channel to the Sport Multiscreen as 3001 or Sport Multiscreen menu is only time the crash happens, and it always happens. So may be something outside of MHEG5 that MHEG5 invokes.

 

On Triax 537 setbox which is MHEG5 for DTT and Satellite but not a Freesat box, the Irish & UK MHEG5 work, but not Freesat Multiscreen applications in MHEG5.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056168690&page=6

It has failed certification for Saorview, though they hope to have it sorted soon.

[mobiwan]

Selected BBC1 NI

hit ESC to load MHEG

arrow to sport Multiscreen on menu (entering 3001 has same effect)

hit enter key

 

Stream 6 (the sport Multiscreen start screen) video plays and application displays EPG Now/next info, then crashes as above.

 

Last lines of log are

 

29.04.11 12:10:39.406 MHEG5Host_DisplayVideoAt 0 0 720 576 0 0

29.04.11 12:10:39.437 MHEG5Host_UpdateScreen 362 310 320 72

29.04.11 12:10:40.312 Mheg CMHEG5Video::CMHEG5Video 101 paint (playing)

 

29.04.11 12:10:40.312 MHEG5Host_DisplayVideoAt 0 0 720 576 0 0

29.04.11 12:10:40.328 MHEG5Host_UpdateScreen 368 505 200 30

29.04.11 12:10:40.328 MHEG5Host_GetServiceIndex dvb://0002..1ae6

29.04.11 12:10:40.328 MHEG5Host_ApplicationUnavailable

29.04.11 12:10:40.328 Mheg TIn: keep running: FALSE

 

29.04.11 12:10:40.328 MHEG5Host_TuneToService 3084

29.04.11 12:10:40.328 MHEG5Host_SetDECFC 1

29.04.11 12:10:40.328 MHEG5Host_SetWSS 0

29.04.11 12:10:40.328 MHEG5Host_SetAudioVolume 100

29.04.11 12:10:40.421 Settuner Start

29.04.11 12:10:40.421 TfrmMain Allocate TechnoTrend BDA/DVB-S Tuner (2)

29.04.11 12:10:40.421 Settuner Found usable hardware

29.04.11 12:10:40.421 TfrmMain Release TechnoTrend BDA/DVB-S Tuner (2)

29.04.11 12:10:40.421 TDVBHardware.SetTuner PMT: 262 - SID: 6886 - Freq: 12441 - Type: 1

29.04.11 12:10:40.421 TBDADevice Settuner

29.04.11 12:10:40.421 DeviceSendDiSEqCCommand bvTechnoTrend

29.04.11 12:10:40.812 TBDACITTModuleSingle CI Base SetTuner Entering

29.04.11 12:10:40.812 TBDACITTModuleSingle CI Base SetTuner Leaving

29.04.11 12:10:40.812 Settuner End

29.04.11 12:10:41.140 TBDACITTModuleSingle WinProc Received PMT ready

29.04.11 12:10:41.140 AddAVCodecs VCodec: CyberLink Video/SP Decoder (PDVD7), ACodec: CyberLink Audio Decoder (PDVD7)

29.04.11 12:10:41.218 VCodec CyberLink Video/SP Decoder (PDVD7)

29.04.11 12:10:41.218 ACodec CyberLink Audio Decoder (PDVD7)

29.04.11 12:10:41.250 vmr9 The operation completed successfully

29.04.11 12:10:41.250 VMR9 Go YUV

29.04.11 12:10:41.250 AddVideoRenderer Add VMR 9

29.04.11 12:10:41.328 VMR9 Flags:

29.04.11 12:10:41.328 VMR9 OffscreenSurface

29.04.11 12:10:41.328 VMR9 RGBDynamicSwitch

29.04.11 12:10:41.328 VMR9 768 x 576, count: 1, minbuffers: 1

29.04.11 12:10:41.328 VMR9 Format: 842094158 - Pool: 0

29.04.11 12:10:41.328 VMR9 Native Size 768 x 576

29.04.11 12:10:41.328 VMR9 Result offscreentexture: NV12

29.04.11 12:10:41.375 Used Filter 0: VMR 9 Renderer (Custom)

29.04.11 12:10:41.375 Used Filter 1: Default DirectSound Device

29.04.11 12:10:41.375 Used Filter 2: CyberLink Audio Decoder (PDVD7)

29.04.11 12:10:41.375 Used Filter 3: CyberLink Video/SP Decoder (PDVD7)

29.04.11 12:10:41.375 Used Filter 4: DVB Source

29.04.11 12:10:41.828 MHEG5Host_CREATE Use Resolution 720x576x32bpp

29.04.11 12:10:41.828 Mheg MHEG5_ProcessPMT for 0002.07F6.1AE6 (MHEG Carousel active: 1)

 

 

Complete file

debug.log

 

Previous attempt Windows log file

998a_appcompat.txt

 

(Gets same error every time)

 

here is "support tool" results

support.zip

 

Disabling the 2nd tuner makes no difference.

 

Tuner1 1st DVBS2 S3200 PCI card. Connected to 16 port Multiswitch (28E, 19E, 13E & 9E)

Tuner2 2nd DVBS2 S3200 PCI card. Connected to 16 port Multiswitch (28E, 19E, 13E & 9E)

Tuner3 & Tuner4 Single Mobi DTV USB DTT dual tuner stick. Irish Terrestrial TV

Edited April 29, 2011 by mobiwan

[xtonys]

Hi

 

Great - I just ordered the plugin on paypal.

 

If you can supply the key soon, it will result in my TV being out of use for several hours for technical reasons, so no royal wedding!

 

Just out of interest, what is the MHEG utility in Windows7? It can be enabled in the registry for Win MC7.

 

Thanks

 

Tony

[xtonys]

Hi

 

Installed the plugin...

Sadly no royal wedding is available

 

Win7 64bit, Technisat DVB-S2 USB (1 on Astra 2A/Eurobird1, 1 on Turksat 2A/3C)

 

 

My results

- BBC News - "press red" does not appear.

Press F5 and brings up the BBCi generic homepage overlay.

Goto 3001 Sports multiscreen. It switches channel and shows multiscreen, but no MHEG, so pressing 6 for F1 results in switching channel to ITV2 (in my favourite list).

- BBC News with BBCi homepage

Select News headlines. News headlines appear, but video is not resized to window.

BBC News in Win7MC automatically shows "press red" when you tune to the channel.

 

- BBC2 England - "press red" does not appear.

Press F5 and brings up the BBCi generic homepage overlay.

Goto 3001 Sports multiscreen. It switches channel and shows multiscreen, but no MHEG, so pressing 6 for F1 results in switching channel to ITV2 (in my favourite)

 

- BBC2 Scotland (which would produce a press red with Win7MC) - "press red" does not appear.

Press F5 and brings up the BBCi generic homepage overlay.

Select News headlines. News headlines appear, and the video did resize to window.

Press F6 to hide MHEG overlay, show fullscreen video and overlay "back red" in top right corner of screen

(Yellow, Green options should be visible to prompt users across bottom of most/all MHEG screens)

 

Press red to return to MHEG. Takes me to homepage. Select news. Video does not resize.

 

- BBC RADIO1

MHEG overlay automatically starts

Green works to activate/deactivate screensaver.

I think there should be options for changing BBC radio channels and other content (BBC R2 streams, 5liveSX, etc)

 

- BBC 5Live

MHEG overlay automatically starts

Green works to activate/deactivate screensaver.

I dont watch/listen enough, but sure there should be links to 5liveSX or related streams such as F1 or Christian OConnell stream Saturday morning?)

 

- BBC CBeebies

No "press red" or their equivilent

Suggests no MHEG detected as pressing F5 gives recent channels, not MHEG.

 

- BBC Four (CBeebies time-based channel-share)

CBeebies video visible. I think this should show the channel off-air video or MHEG, or is this just Freeview?

- No "press red" or their equivilent

Suggests no MHEG detected as pressing F5 gives recent channels, not MHEG.

 

- BBC One HD

No "press red" or their equivilent

Press F5 and brings up the BBCi generic homepage overlay.

Select News headlines. News headlines appear, and the video did resize to window.

Select a news story and video reverts to fullscreen below MHEG overlay. Should stay in window.

Press F6 to hide MHEG overlay, show fullscreen video and overlay "back red" in top right corner of screen

Press F7 to show again MHEG overlay on news story. Video has not resized to window.

(Yellow, Green options should be visible to prompt users across bottom of most/all MHEG screens)

 

- ITV1 HD

No "press red" or their equivilent

Suggests no MHEG detected as pressing F5 gives recent channels, not MHEG.

 

- Channel 4 HD

No "press red" or their equivilent

Suggests no MHEG detected as pressing F5 gives recent channels, not MHEG.

- I think C4 use Yellow or Green to enter MHEG??? Tried these, but no MHEG.

 

- Sky News (UK)

No "press red" or their equivilent

I have multiscreen in my favourites, but cant access it from Sky News MHEG.

 

I dont have a Sky or Freesat box to verify the menu options, especially for radio - is anyone else able do this?

 

Hope this helps...

Christian - I work from home one day a week, so if you ever need to test changes with a UK machine, you can let me know and remote access my mediacentre. PM me if interested?

 

Good to see some MHEG-IC transport controls in the user guide after downloading. Will be good for BBC iPlayer when it fully launches on Freesat. Only available with some TV manufacturers to date.

Edited April 29, 2011 by xtonys

[mobiwan]

Sky News on Satellite is only OpenTV, not MHEG5. I don't know about Freeview, but I think Sky News isn't even on Freesat EPG, it's "other channels".

 

Sky boxes use "Open TV" (which of course is nearly the least open middleware:) along with MediaHiway). Only Freesat EPG channels on 28E Satellite use MHEG5.

 

Irish Channels on 28E are part of Sky pay TV platform, so no MHEG5.

 

Irish Channels on Saorview (Terrestrial) can use MHEG5, but currently TV3, TG4 and 3e don't have MHEG5 content. RTE NL may be running other non-text MHEG5 applications later after official launch. They did test a "green" button "Interactive" application that included an MHEG5 EPG using the DVB-EIT data (unlike Freesat or Sky, RTE NL transmit full 7 day DVB EPG on their own platforms, which may include 9E Ka-Sat Irish Spot beam later in 2011). Current Irish MHEG5 is only from these transmitters http://coverage.rtenl.ie/RTENLcoveragechecker.php and http://maps.techtir.com/ireland-dtt.htm (click on area)

 

RTE will later be adding MHEG5 applications for the radio channels on Saorview

Edited April 29, 2011 by mobiwan

[xtonys]

update...

 

- BBC THREE (now active as BBC Three after 19:00)

Does not show "press red" on channel change

Press F5 and BBCi homepage appears

Press News and video resizes to window

Press Main Headlines and video reverts to full screen behind MHEG overlay.

Press F6 to hide MHEG overlay with "back red" top right corner

Press F6 to view MHEG overlay at last page - video resizes to window

Press F7 to go back to previous MHEG page/menu. Video reverts to full screen behind MHEG overlay.

 

- Talksport (radio)

MHEG logo appears automatically

 

- BBC HD

"press red" does not automatically appear on channel change

Press F5 and BBCi homepage appears

Press News and video resizes to window

Press Main Headlines and video reverts to full screen behind MHEG overlay.

Press F6 to hide MHEG overlay with "back red" top right corner

Press F6 to view MHEG overlay at last page - video resizes to window

Press F7 to go back to previous MHEG page/menu. Video reverts to full screen behind MHEG overlay.

 

Tried same channel with Overlay instead of my usual choice of VMR9

- Nice purple colour instead of any video!

 

Tried to simulate Win 7MC (as MHEG works slightly better at present...)

Microsoft DTV-DVD codec for MPEG2 and H264 and System Default video renderer

- black screen and no video (OSD works)

Overlay renderer

- purple screen and no video (OSD works)

VMR7 renderer (with Nvidia option ticked)

- video works

- no OSD

- Test on BBC News - No "press red", F5 make MHEG visible.

EVR renderer

- video works

- no OSD

Select BBC 2 England

- No "press red"

- F5 produces BBCi homepage overlay

- Video does not resize to window (fullscreen behind overlay)

- F6 hide MHEG overlay. Shows "back yellow". F6 again to see MHEG overlay. video does not resize to window.

Select BBC News

- No "press red"

- F5 produces BBCi homepage overlay

- Video does not resize to window (fullscreen behind overlay)

- F6 hide MHEG overlay. Shows "back yellow". F6 again to see MHEG overlay. video does not resize to window.

 

Select BBC2 Scotland

- No "press red" (appears automatically in Win 7MC)

 

 

Does MHEG use the same overlay as OSD - are they interfering with each other?

 

- I select BBC 2 England. MHEG shows an overlay page if I press F5.

- Cancel MHEG overlay. Show OSD Clock. Press F5, the recent channel list appears, not MHEG.

- Close OSD Clock (and channel list), press F5 and MHEG appears.

 

Disable OSD, and MHEG does not work on any channel.

However, testing with Overlay and System Default, video works again for both (no purple or black screens)

 

 

Will reactivate Win 7MC and MHEG in registry and test with the same channels...

[mobiwan]

I think Hackbart said only "VMR9 Custom" works with MHEG5

[xtonys]

Hi

 

The previous time I used Win 7MC was last year with a FireDTV card.

Since then I have switched to Technisat DVB-S2 usb tuners

 

Tried Win 7MC with all the same tests as above for v4.8. Same results.

BBC2 Scotland and BBC News will not now automatically show "press red"

However, pressing green to hide MHEG and green again to reveal MHEG, the video always seems to resize to the window.

 

There are no colour input guides across the bottom (so must be remembering Freeview perhaps?)

 

The difference from last time is the tuners and drivers.

Would different cards handle/detect MHEG streams quicker than others perhaps, accounting for why it FireDTV could display "press red" on some channels?

[mobiwan]

I doubt the card makes any difference. The MHEG is encapsulated in the Transport Stream. Unless a card has its own CPU and DSP, it's not going to look inside the Transport Stream (i.e. ancient Hauppauge / Technotrend with built in MPEG2 and built in Video Out that works on a P90).

[xtonys]

I doubt the card makes any difference. The MHEG is encapsulated in the Transport Stream. Unless a card has its own CPU and DSP, it's not going to look inside the Transport Stream (i.e. ancient Hauppauge / Technotrend with built in MPEG2 and built in Video Out that works on a P90).

 

I thought I would mentıon any changes to my setup.

I didnt realise the FireDTV passed unchanged MPEG/MHEG streams over Firewire to the PC, and my TechniSat DVB-S2 passes unchanged over USB2? I guess PC-based decoding would explain why the processors are working that much harder to decode/render DVB-S2 over HD over SD.

 

Without having a Freesat box/TV, I dont know if the BBC has simply stopped putting the "press red" bug in top right corner as much as it used to? Maybe I check a Humax in a local electrical store later...

 

Test over, I can unselect Win 7MC again

 

Look forward to any fixes or patches....

Edited April 30, 2011 by xtonys

[xtonys]

update from a Humax Freesat user wıth latest fırmware...

 

there is NO red button graphic in the top right of any of the channels. There are NO coloured buttons on the teletext home page. Red (home) green (full screen) and yellow (back) appear when you enter a section like weather. There is NO blue button

[xtonys]

Good reference point for BBCi technical services

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/01/update_iplayer_on_freesat.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2011/04/bbc_iplayer_on_tv_update.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/bigscreen/

 

Could help with the bugs we are experiencing on MHEG content.

 

In the future...

There is alot of activity related to running trials of BBC iPlayer for major TV manufacturers.

I believe this uses MHEG-IC, which it appears is available with our plugin.

Edited April 30, 2011 by xtonys

[mobiwan]

 

I didnt realise the FireDTV passed unchanged MPEG/MHEG streams over Firewire to the PC, and my TechniSat DVB-S2 passes unchanged over USB2? I guess PC-based decoding would explain why the processors are working that much harder to decode/render DVB-S2 over HD over SD.

 

DVB-S, DVB-S2, DVB-T, DVB-T2 isn't important to PC/Software/CPU as that is HW on the physical tuner. This is why you can't use Firmware or Software to upgrade from DVB-S to DVB-S2 or DVB-T to DVB-T2. All four of those could be an identical Transport Stream, and I think some Italian & French DVB-T sites are using Transport Stream direct over ASI connection from DVB-S or DVB-S2 receivers. This may be RTE NL's plan for backup feed of DTT from Ka-Sat. 1920x1080i is about x6.6 more pixels than 544x576

 

The differences are ONLY

1) MPEG4 vs MPEG2.

Even for SD 544 x576, a huge lot more processing is needed for MPEG4. Setboxes and TVs use hardware DSP and a different more powerful version needed for MPEG4. The H.264 AVC version (L3 = SD, L4 = HD) is huge more cpu effort than the kind of MPEG4 in Flash or DivX etc. This is why MPEG2 TVs, even if HD, can't be upgraded to MPEG4 by any firmware.

 

2) SD vs HD.

HD on its own needs about x4 to x7 "effort" compared to SD, even if coding was the same. Add extra "effort" to decode MPEG4 AVC H.264 L4 compared to MPEG2, and you see why you need GPU assistance for decoding, re-scaling, (transmission may be 544x576i, 720x576i, 1440x1088i, 1920x1080i etc, with 4:3 or 16:9 on SD, HD is only ever 16:9, and screen 1920 x 1080p50)de-interlace etc.

 

It's interesting and depressing to see "dropped frames" statistics on PC receiving MPEG4 HD with 1920x1080p50 display.

Edited April 30, 2011 by mobiwan

[logueys]

Just to add I have the EVR renderer enabled and I can use the MHEG 5 text as it is currently set up.

[xtonys]

DVB-S, DVB-S2, DVB-T, DVB-T2 isn't important to PC/Software/CPU as that is HW on the physical tuner. This is why you can't use Firmware or Software to upgrade from DVB-S to DVB-S2 or DVB-T to DVB-T2. All four of those could be an identical Transport Stream, and I think some Italian & French DVB-T sites are using Transport Stream direct over ASI connection from DVB-S or DVB-S2 receivers. This may be RTE NL's plan for backup feed of DTT from Ka-Sat. 1920x1080i is about x6.6 more pixels than 544x576

 

The differences are ONLY

1) MPEG4 vs MPEG2.

Even for SD 544 x576, a huge lot more processing is needed for MPEG4. Setboxes and TVs use hardware DSP and a different more powerful version needed for MPEG4. The H.264 AVC version (L3 = SD, L4 = HD) is huge more cpu effort than the kind of MPEG4 in Flash or DivX etc. This is why MPEG2 TVs, even if HD, can't be upgraded to MPEG4 by any firmware.

 

2) SD vs HD.

HD on its own needs about x4 to x7 "effort" compared to SD, even if coding was the same. Add extra "effort" to decode MPEG4 AVC H.264 L4 compared to MPEG2, and you see why you need GPU assistance for decoding, re-scaling, (transmission may be 544x576i, 720x576i, 1440x1088i, 1920x1080i etc, with 4:3 or 16:9 on SD, HD is only ever 16:9, and screen 1920 x 1080p50)de-interlace etc.

 

It's interesting and depressing to see "dropped frames" statistics on PC receiving MPEG4 HD with 1920x1080p50 display.

 

I will have to upgrade the processor/mobo if content on MPEG4 HD 1920x1080 channels warrants it... Currently C4 HD and TRT HD test channel at present. Presumably just recording content to disk requires less processing than to display it? If this is the case, it becomes more cost-effective to get some WD Live boxes to view TS recorded content than upgrade system components.

[mobiwan]

Recording can even be done on a P90. Only the Transport stream is de-muxed and re-mux to be be smaller and only have the bits needed for one channel. No decoding at all.

[mobiwan]

Just to add I have the EVR renderer enabled and I can use the MHEG 5 text as it is currently set up.

 

I find "sometimes" on some channels the video size and/or aspect goes wrong on EVR custom Renderer (installed on XP only if you have certain level of .net I think as it's part of Vista or Win7 Direct X). It still "unscales" it to crop in the video window though.

[xtonys]

Hi

 

Can some of you try to listen to a BBC radio channel on Freesat

When the automatic MHEG kicks in, the audio cuts out. Take 5live for example - the scrolling text stops writing halfway down.

 

Does the same happen with Freeview BBC 5live?

[Cjay]

Indeed, All the BBC radio channels on Freesat lose audio when the MHEG kicks in - so get a few seconds only.

[uglyned]

It might be a bit wider ranging than that.

 

As soon as any full-screen MHEG page is loaded (ie one that has no overlay and no small video window) the DVBViewer graph stops.

 

So when I check the football scores, as soon as the main football scores page appears, video freezes and audio stops. I can back out, the application itself works fine, but I have to either change channel or rebuild graph in order to get audio and video back.

 

I think the same thing is happening with the radio.

[hackbart]

In the next DVBViewer update I disabled the ability to change the volume. It is quite hard to test these things without having access to live streams I'm also not sure if i should take care of the other Audio and Video controls.

[uglyned]

Is it easy for you to issue specific beta updates, with short lives, so we can test and feed back?

[xtonys]

Hi

 

It would be good if the only way to start MHEG on TV channels is by pressing red (automatic start on radio channels).

 

Currently, the following buttons on my MCE remote all seem to call up MHEG overlay menu on BBC TV channels

TV - HTPC menu

EPG - OSD timeline

Info - OSD menu

Back - OSD back

Ok - OSD OK

 

The MHEG overlay appears to be conflicting with OSD. Switch to a BBC channel. OSD is only available for 1-2 seconds.

If I press OK, it should show now/next OSD. It does nothing.

 

TV Text button should also exit MHEG, but mostly does not work.

 

The colour button key is nearly always visible across the bottom of MHEG screen with Freeview (on my LG TV), but just a grey area on Freesat. Is this the same for everyone?

 

Happy to help beta-test.

[mobiwan]

No, red button is not always correct.

 

The Broadcaster can define different applications for Text, Red, Green, Yellow and Blue.

[Cjay]

In the next DVBViewer update I disabled the ability to change the volume. It is quite hard to test these things without having access to live streams I'm also not sure if i should take care of the other Audio and Video controls.

 

Uglyned is right, when the MHEG starts it seems to be intercepting the whole DVB stream. For example on BBC radio 2 the DVB source parameters go from:

 

MPEG Audio J. Stereo 48kHz, 192kbps --> 'Blank'

Video State: No data / Unconnected --> No data / Unconnected

Audio State: Enabled / Connected --> No data / Connected

Allocated Buffers: 3 --> 0

Clock (PCR): 01:46:32.362 --> 'Blank'

Audio PTS: 00:00:05.091 --> 'Blank'

 

Hope this helps.

Chris

[groovyclam]

It would be good if the only way to start MHEG on TV channels is by pressing red (automatic start on radio channels).

 

No! This would be a disaster!

 

What about Off-air notices for TV channels ? They need to come up automatically!

 

What about BBC channel 301 ? That needs to start automatically.

 

For God's sake DO NOT IMPLEMENT THIS!!!!

[xtonys]

Hi

 

For my better understanding, regarding placeholder pages on BBC 301, BBC Three, BBC Four, radio, CNNI, etc...

- Do all channels carrying MHEG services initiate MHEG in the background automatically?

So data from the broadcaster either automatically results in visible output (placeholder pages or "homepages" for radio channels for example), or is "invisible", sending data to the receiver so it understands what to do if a (coloured) button is pressed?

 

 

This may help the developers with testing (or for the BBC technical contacts)?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/08/open_source_release_of_mheg_to.html

 

 

Look forward to the next update or any beta release...