leecovuk Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Hello, Have any of you had the issue where the Live TV picture (MPEG2 or H.264) looks a little artificial and found a way to improve it? I mean the picture slightly lacks fluidity and does not fully resemble how a television displays it. Maybe I am experiencing a field or frame issue of some kind. If relevant, my pc's graphics card is an ATI Radeon HD 4350 and I currently have the latest Catalyst Control Centre installed at default settings. My OS is Windows 7 Home Premium 32 bit. The pc processor is an AMD Phenom 8600 Triple Core. Can anybody suggest, from successful experience, some specific codecs and settings, DVBViewer settings or Catalyst settings? Thanks very much, Lee UK Quote Link to comment
Cian Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) Sorry if I am stating the obvious here but I don't know how much you have used DVBViewer before ... The first things to check is that the refresh rate on your graphics card is set to 50Hz for UK TV. The more recent catalyst drivers have not been great for H.264 - can be very blocky. This is due to change soon - it may have already but I'm not sure. If I remember rightly version 11.3 is the most reliable recent driver. Most people install the demo version of PowerDVD and use those codecs. If your codec can use DXVA then that would help too (you can get to this by the (...) button beside your chosen codec on the DirectX page under the Settings -> Options menu) I find the News channels to be the handiest for checking the refresh rate and interlacing because of the moving ticker at the bottom. Hope this helps. Edited July 23, 2011 by Cian Quote Link to comment
desweil Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) you are watching on a PC Monitor or on a TV? TVs with Frame Interpolation (100Hz) often produce a "soap opera" artificial look. Edited July 23, 2011 by desweil Quote Link to comment
leecovuk Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 (edited) Thanks very much for these replies. I am watching on a computer monitor. It is not a HD monitor, but of course I still like to tune to HD channels as well as SD ones. It is an LG W2043, connected via a VGA connection. I had no idea about the monitor's refresh rate ... In Windows, the monitor's refresh rate is currently set at 75Hz. The available refresh rates in the monitor's Properties are 60Hz, 70Hz, 72Hz and 75Hz. Regarding PowerDVD's codecs ... does the trial version expire along with the codecs? I haven't yet tried PowerDVD's codecs. Many thanks, Lee Edited July 24, 2011 by leecovuk Quote Link to comment
trifon33 Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 (edited) Hi, What I found from différents tests is the graphic card compatibility is important with W7. You need DirectX 11 graphic card, i.e. HD 5/6 ATI series to get natural pictures "out of the box". Tested with IGP HD 4250 and HD 4670 then HD 6450 and HD 6670. Both series 6 series are OK....Series 4..look terrible without massive color, gamma, brigtness, etc..changes in both the CCC and the Display....This situation is all but normal. I thought while upgrading from XP to W7 that DirectX 11 was just needed by certain games...I was wrong... This fact is not very well known.... Edited August 3, 2011 by trifon33 Quote Link to comment
leecovuk Posted August 3, 2011 Author Share Posted August 3, 2011 Thanks trifon33, My pictures do not look terrible, but they do have a slight 'artificial' quality as described earlier. I think it might be fair to say I get similar results when watching programmes on the BBC iplayer site. However, pc playback of video files seems to give good results with 'natural' fluidity. (eg in Windows Media Player or Media Player Classic) Once or twice I have tried changing various settings in Catalyst Control Centre, but I have not (yet) found any settings which make my live pictures less artificial. However I was changing and trying settings somewhat randomly. Maybe, as you suggest, I am limited due to my OS and graphics card. i.e. I can't do anything about it without changing one or both of them. Lee Quote Link to comment
fxv1 Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Have you tried CCC 11.7 or the test version of 11.8? Make sure you a clean uninstall beforehand if you try and of those releases. I am using ccc11.4 on my main rig but have tried the other....not noticed any DXVA changes but might be worth a test if you can spare the time ...make sure you do a system restore in case you have issues. Frank Thanks trifon33, My pictures do not look terrible, but they do have a slight 'artificial' quality as described earlier. I think it might be fair to say I get similar results when watching programmes on the BBC iplayer site. However, pc playback of video files seems to give good results with 'natural' fluidity. (eg in Windows Media Player or Media Player Classic) Once or twice I have tried changing various settings in Catalyst Control Centre, but I have not (yet) found any settings which make my live pictures less artificial. However I was changing and trying settings somewhat randomly. Maybe, as you suggest, I am limited due to my OS and graphics card. i.e. I can't do anything about it without changing one or both of them. Lee Quote Link to comment
trifon33 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 (edited) I observed not much difference between 11.4 ans 11.7...excepted the UVD2/3 support issue found in 11.5 and 11.6. I made my test with one Mitsubishi videoprojector. This kind of display is very neutral. AS soon as there is someting wrong in the color/brightness balance through the HDMI stream, it is easy to notice it as there is, for instance, no wide range of brigtness ajustement. I had to encrease this setting to the max. In addition, the color balance was wrong with green flesh..like in horror film...the grey scale not linear too... All those issues disappeard with DirectX 11 series 6.... I believe, by the way, in case of upgrade to new OS, it is necessary to change the graphic part accordingly to get the best of it. Tested with the PowerDVD 11 HD filter...wich is not the worst video filter to date... All CCC settings to zero or neutral. You can test the "antic" overlay..it is obvious that EVR introduce some exiting 3D effect(pixel shaders are nice feature) but the dark side is that is not well adapted to no Direct X 11 GC... Edited August 4, 2011 by trifon33 Quote Link to comment
leecovuk Posted August 4, 2011 Author Share Posted August 4, 2011 I originally bought my pc hardware with OEM Windows Vista on it. Since then, I haven't changed the hardware but bought a retail version of Windows 7. I wiped the hard drive and did a clean install of the Windows 7. Maybe this OS change is an issue. I can't remember how my pictures looked when using Vista. I always use the latest version of the Catalyst Control Centre (uninstall, reboot, install, reboot). I appreciate the latest version may not always be the 'best' but I never seem to notice any difference to my 'issue' regardless of version. At the moment I have the following settings in Catalyst Control Centre. (It now seems to be called AMD Vision Engine Control Center) These settings may have made a slight difference, but not necessarily. Desktop Color: Gamma: 0.75 (I always set gamma to 0.75 because I prefer how it makes everything look) Video Settings: All 'switches' set to 'red' except Edge-enhancement (default setting of 10) De-noise (default setting of 64) Apply current video quality settings to Internet video Deinterlacing mode set to 'bob'. Lee Quote Link to comment
fxv1 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 (edited) from my experience the AMD uninstall sucks big time as it leaves all the old dlls on your system. You need Drive Sweeper to get rid of all the old files. Edited August 4, 2011 by fxv1 Quote Link to comment
trifon33 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) Upgrade to W7 was OK for the OEM Desktop in question. Don't bother with driver installation question... This kind of PC is very often sold with the ultra minimum graphic card for video usage...and 3D too...like the very very basic HD 4350 with almost no video post process features...only hardware support UVD2. Suggestion is to upgrade to descent GC... Some suggestions: HD 5570..the reference card for HTPC in Hd 5*** serie HD 6450 with DDR5..unfortunatly, so fare I could see, this cheap card exist with rather noisy fan only. The HD 6450 DDR3 fanless I have tested misses some features..no ESVP due to poor 3D feature. My present card Asrock HD 6670, perfect with big slow fan..new refrence card. You'll see immediatly the diffrence with plenty new settings avalaible like the recommanded Vector adaptative in desinterlacing setting and ESVP aka Enhance Smooth video playback(not available in HD 6450 fanless DDR3) Edited August 5, 2011 by trifon33 Quote Link to comment
leecovuk Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 Don't bother with driver installation question... Do you mean don't bother installing the latest AMD software? I decided to remove any drivers I had manually found and installed, then only accepted (older) drivers offered by Windows Update. i.e. maybe Windows knows better what is best for my pc and hardware. I suppose it might be possible. This kind of PC is very often sold with the ultra minimum graphic card for video usage...and 3D too...like the very very basic HD 4350 with almost no video post process features...only hardware support UVD2. As you may have read earlier, indeed my card is the 4350. I cannot see that stated anywhere in the computer, but I seem to recall it from when I bought the pc. As you suggest, maybe I am unable to get 'great' live pictures with my current hardware. Lee Quote Link to comment
fxv1 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 The hardware is more than capable. Let's face it the 4350 is more than capable of playing a Blu-ray movie so the HD picture is hardly going to tax the hw. I have a 5770 and previously a 3870 and from the video side of things never had a problem. Most of the issues is around the codecs and software drivers. In some cases the codecs do the hw accelerations and in some they don't. EAch solution has its pros and cons. To compund things there is something weird about DVB-S2 transmissions. Since BBC HD channels moved over from DVB-S to S2 it has never worked well for me with any ATM drivers. It is not my hardware as the same feed (BBC1 HD ) used to work perfectly well before going over to DVB-s2. I have asked on many forums for some kind of pointer to what could be causing this but none as yet. I would'nt go buying a GPU to fix these issues as yet ut make sure you setup the hw correctly. At the moment I am using the PowerDVD11 codecs and use the freeview (DVB-t2) HD channels which work 100% perfectly, no dropouts or artefacts. Frank Do you mean don't bother installing the latest AMD software? I decided to remove any drivers I had manually found and installed, then only accepted (older) drivers offered by Windows Update. i.e. maybe Windows knows better what is best for my pc and hardware. I suppose it might be possible. As you may have read earlier, indeed my card is the 4350. I cannot see that stated anywhere in the computer, but I seem to recall it from when I bought the pc. As you suggest, maybe I am unable to get 'great' live pictures with my current hardware. Lee Quote Link to comment
leecovuk Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 At the moment I am using the PowerDVD11 codecs Are you using the pay version, or do the codecs remain active after the trial period? In general, would some of you say that the live TV picture you watch via DVBViewer on your pc looks just the same as watching a satellite receiver on your TV? Or are there always differences in some ways? Quote Link to comment
fxv1 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 You can d/l the trial version of PDVD11 , codecs will remain in place I think. Some codec packs have them, not sure if they are legal. DVBViewer picture is better than TV (I have a Panny 42") especially from close quarters on DVB-T2 in IMHO ... you can create your own taste of picture with AMD CCC, it is very versatile. Make sure if you use PowerDVD codecs to turn on DXVA and BOB interlace (there are other interlace choices within CCC) I have two W7 64 bit setup on 2 drives ....one using CCC11.4 and one with CCC 11.8 and both work great on DVB-T2 , alas DVB-S2 has let me down and I don't tend to use that now. Good luck Quote Link to comment
trifon33 Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 The original question was not artifacts(tearings, macroblocks, etc...).....but poor picture quality due to wrong color balance...that's quite different point.... There is no problem to play Blu ray, wich is, by the way, progressive material, with the HD 4350. No desinterlacing feature is needed. In addition, when watching moovie it is very difficult to detect wrong color balance due to filter usage or content itself. DVB content which is all interlaced is another story with real life. I stay on my position: new OS=new compatible hardware. Codec suggestion: download the Arcsoft Total Media Theatre 5 trial version. I think the video codec should be available in DVBViewer. This codec is definitly the best video filter for DVB HD. Quote Link to comment
majstang Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 DVB content which is all interlaced is another story with real life. Well, maybe that is true where you live, but there is broadcasters using 720p. Quote Link to comment
fxv1 Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Is there anything available in the uk @ 720P, afaik most of the HD channels are on 1080i. Don't have sky so no idea what that broadcasts. Quote Link to comment
trifon33 Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 To resume my comment: The question is not 720P or 1080i or p..... The rule is when you upgrade your OS...and especialy with W7, one need to upgrade some components of the PC...Very often, one have to change everything...so, upgrading graphic card is minor change that I don't understand people is reluctant to do...There is no magic answer through driver or software to solve that... It is very difficult to get natural DVB picture when the graphic card is not Direct X 11. That's what I have discovered when upgrading from XP to W7 with HD 4670...Every thing is wrong: color balance, grey scale, etc... I supect there is some compatibiility issues with D3D version... Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.