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Try*3

teletext [in main menu] greyed out

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Try*3

The teletext entry in the main menu [or by right-clicking in the main window] is greyed out, inoperative.

 

I am in the UK. 

I am tuned to BBC News.  All BBC channels carry teletext [News, weather, ...]. 

I have updated to v6.0.4.  The same problem was seen in earlier versions.

I have tried on 3 computers to make sure it is not my own computer causing this. 

I have tried 3 TV tuners to make sure it is not a hardware problem

- All my tuners are tuned in to digital channels only [I don't think we have analogue channels left here anymore]

- My newest tuner is Hauppauge WinTV DualHD which explicitly states that it can handle teletext

- My older tuners could show teletext when used with Windows 7 Windows media centre but I am now on Windows 10 so that option does not exist.  They could also show teletext using their own proprietary software [TerraTec, KWorld] in Windows 7.

 

I found a 2011 thread that indicated it was an issue that would be addressed in future versions.  Teletext Button Non Functional

 

The wiki page on teletext mentioned 'Teletext PID' so I checked this.  My channels show 0 in that box [diagram attached in case it holds useful info].  I tried, without any understanding of what I was doing, entering the same number as the Video PID but there was no change.

 

How can I get teletext to work?

 

Denis

No teletext PID.png

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Griga
3 hours ago, Try*3 said:

The teletext entry in the main menu [or by right-clicking in the main window] is greyed out, inoperative.

 

Here teletext is enabled in DVBViewer when I receive the Freesat versions of BBC News (HD and SD). Both provide teletext subtitles on page 888. There are no other teletext pages.

 

I guess the Freeview version doesn't provide old-school :) teletext anymore, but limits itself to DVB subtitles. If there was teletext, DVBViewer would detect it automatically and add the teletext PID (Packet Identifier)  to the channel data.

 

However, if you are expecting advanced MHEG5 text information by means of the corresponding DVBViewer add-on... well. that's a different thing that I wouldn't call teletext.

 

 

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Try*3

Thanks for replying but

- I can see DVB BBC teletext on my tellie on Freeview [news. weather, ...].  There are hundreds if not thousands of pages.  It does not limit itself to subtitles.  Sample attached.

- As I mentioned above - Windows media centre software, TerraTec & KWorld software [and, apparently, Hauppauge software] can display teletext without any problems but DVBViewer does not, not even on the same channels & the same hardware that the others coped with.

 

So, there is a teletext signal but DVBViewer is not detecting it for some reason / not setting the channel's teletext PID for some reason.

 

I do not know what you mean by "advanced MHEG5 text information" or the "corresponding DVBViewer add-on".

TV teletext sample - reduced.jpg

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Try*3

Added a few minutes later:

- I now believe that BBC teletext is a MHEG5 service [and that I should more properly call it "text services" rather than the older name of "teletext", which referred to Ceefax & that ilk]

- I cannot find any DVBViewer add-on referring to MHEG5 and the only teletext references are for fonts & a time sync function

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Try*3

I have now had a definitive statement from Hauppauge that their WinTV-DualHD TV tuner cannot handle MHEG5 and cannot, therefore, display UK digital teletext.  They added the comment that no USB TV tuners have MHEG5 capability.  I am a bit riled about this because the Amazon.co.uk advert said it could, the box it came in said it could & the Quick install guide said it could. 

 

So that's that then.  DVBViewer is doing its job and it is the hardware that is limited.

 

But thanks for responding earlier.  I thought, at the time, that it was merely going to be a case of adjusting a DVBViewer setting somewhere I had not thought of looking.

 

[My very old notes about trying out TV tuners in Windows media centre specifically mention WMC's teletext capability but one of the USB TV tuners I had at the time contained both analogue & digital tuners so I must, without realising it, have been watching an analogue channel & hence analogue teletext.]

 

Denis

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Griga

I see... that is what you mean :):

 

Zwischenablage01.jpg

 

I can receive it here in Germany via Freesat with a Hauppauge card (!) and the MHEG5 add-on (see here). Or just select Help -> Order / Unlock Add-Ons in DVBViewer. However, there is a restriction, if I remember it correctly. The add-on is not able to play BBC videos or something like that... sorry,  I'm not really familiar with the UK TV stuff.

 

2 hours ago, Try*3 said:

They added the comment that no USB TV tuners have MHEG5 capability.  I

 

Rubbish! MHEG5 is a software thing, not hardware dependent. Most likely the Hauppauge support people confused it with the fact that the Hauppauge software is not able to handle it. I can receive it here as well with a DVBSky S960 USB box.

 

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Try*3

Thanks.  I'll sort this out in the morning.  I had looked through the list of plug-ins etc and had not realised there was more.

 

The link you gave me [and the Help, Order method] take me to the right place to order it but I have been unable to find a description of this add-on in the DVBViewer website [I learnt a bit from several threads about mheg5 though].  I'll just have to go ahead on the basis that it works for you & them so it should work for me.

 

Denis

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Try*3

I bought the addon, installed it, read its ReadMe, started the DVBViewer application. 

 

I tuned in to BBCNews  because that has digital teletext [mheg5] as shown in our posted pictures above.  When I press F5 to get digital teletext [mheg5], an error message appears.

 

I was not expecting it to try to use the internet at all because digital teletext [mheg5] is transmitted data but I did happen to be connected to the internet at the time so I disconnected & tried again with the same result.

Press F5 - error dialog.jpg

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Griga

I've forwarded your report to the add-on developer.

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hackbart

Oh, interesting. This actually happens if they also sent AIT informations. Can you provide the support.zip after you started the DVBViewer in Debug mode? In this case the log will contain more information. You might also check the following: Open the Tweaker Tool and check the "Disable HbbTV" option. In this case these false informations won't be used instead of Mheg5.

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Try*3

When it warned me that the addon would be installed in an existing DVBViewer folder, I let it proceed as that seemed logical.

 

Nothing about mheg5 is shown in any OSD but I do see what I believe to be the mheg5 symbol onscreen for a moment when changing channels to one that transmits digital teletext [mheg5].  Picture attached - the one showing snow.  The symbol only appears for BBC channels and not for those that have no digital teletext, which makes sense.

 

I also tried retuning all channels.

 

I also went back to the Help, Order/Unlock, hbbtv/mheg5 entry to check that my new key had been saved & that the checksum shown was correct.

 

I found the entry in Options, OSD menu for mheg5 and hbbtv and I cleared the checkbox for hbbtv [but left mheg5 entry checked].  After restarting DVBViewer,

- nothing now happens when I press the F5 key

- mheg5 is still not shown in any OSD [picture attached - the one showing both the Options, OSD setting and how the OSD appears]

 

I used debug mode twice and tried the F5 key for a couple of BBC channels then generated support.zip [attached].  I do not understand why there are entries for bbc internet addresses as mheg5 does not require an internet connection.

 

I have just had a popup in this thread to tell me that you have sent two replies while I have been typing this so I'll end this & read them.

still no mheg5 controls.jpg

Onscreen symbol.jpg

support.zip

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Try*3

I just used the Tweaker to disable hbbtv.  I restarted DVBVwr but there has been no change [possibly because I had already unset hbbtv in Options, OSD menu]. 

 

I hope the support.zip file [in my last post] explains the situation.

 

Denis

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Try*3

Will it provide useful information if I uninstall DVBViewer and the Add-in then reinstall both? 

- I will await your response before uninstalling, reinstalling in case doing so would not be helpful at this stage.

- It seems to me that the cleanest state I could achieve would be installation of DVBViewer, full tuning without any subsequent TV station deletions etc, installation of the addin, disable hbbtv.  [followed by a test on a BBC channel, a test using debug mode, creation of a new support.zip]

 

I notice that an MS Visual C++ module installed this morning and I assume that makes sense to you [I have not done anything else that might account for its appearance today].

 

Denis

Edited by Try*3

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Griga

Activating the text service requires the famous "Red Button" , which (as term) appears in every second sentence about British TV :)

 

The default OSD keyboard mapping in DVBViewer is

 

red: F5

green: F6

yellow: F7

blue: F8

 

Additionally the arrow keys and the return key are used for OSD navigation. The keyboard mapping can be viewed/changed on Options -> Input.

 

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Griga
1 hour ago, Try*3 said:

nothing now happens when I press the F5 key

 

Sorry, I didn't spot that. Quite a lot of text here...

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Try*3

"red: F5" - Yes, I have been using the F5 key. 

 

No red button has been appearing onscreen at all, just the little red symbol illustrated in my previous post and it disappears within about half a second [the "Red button" on my TV normally appears after about 10 secs and stays onscreen for about 30 secs].

 

I have also discovered that pressing my mouse wheel acts as the middle-key and brings up the relevant OSD which shows an entry for MHEG5 but neither clicking on it nor pressing Return while it is selected have any effect [I played around choosing the System & Mosaic entries just to make sure that the OSD itself was working as expected].   I had previously thought that "OSD" meant the menu tree that appears when I right-click on the screen which is why I posted a screenshot of those menus before.

Screenshot (271).jpg

Edited by Try*3

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hackbart

Did you entered your mheg5 credentials in the key tool?

 

By the way there is indeed a problem inside the DVBViewer. I did not knew that BBC does deliver also HbbTV content:

 

Screenshot 2018-02-15 um 13.12.07.jpg

 

I should filter the given URI's if they are not correct.

 

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Try*3

Yes, I entered my credentials and the specified Checksum code appeared.

 

[I had not heard of hbbtv before looking into the mheg5 add-in.]

 

Unless you can spot something in the support.zip, I think I might as well try reinstalling DVBViewer or both DVBViewer  & the add-in.  I pasted the password directly from your email so I am concerned that I probably had Outlook 2007 open during installation [I normally close everything before any installation but I have a clear memory of pasting straight from the email rather than having copied it into a text file beforehand so I must have left Outlook running].

 

Denis

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hackbart

Yes, you might check the following (this does not solve your mheg5 problem): 

 

Enable HbbTV in the Tweaker, create the following VBS-Script in notepad and execute it, when the DVBViewer is running:

 

Dim DVBViewer
  
Set DVBViewer = GetObject(, "DVBViewerServer.DVBViewer")
  
DVBViewer.HbbTV.LoadInBrowser "https://www.live.bbctvapps.co.uk/tap/home?#&*history=broadcast", 1
DVBViewer.HbbTV.Visible = 1

It opens the BBC HbbTV Website in the DVBViewer. So far everything runs fine, but i stumbled over the Geocheck  when it comes to the HLS streams. 

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Try*3

Thanks, the hbbtv.vbs works [as long as hbbtv is not disabled in the Tweaker].

 

I think I should go ahead and reinstall.

 

Denis

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Try*3

Success.  Reinstalled the add-on and teletext [mheg5] now works.

 

- It only works on BBC's SD channels not HD ones [this might be correct behaviour for all I know.  My HD set-top box does not have any teletext facility & my TV itself is SD so I have nothing HD to compare the behaviour to].  It is not really a problem in any case because it only takes a moment to change to one of their SD channels.

- I have to keep hbbtv disabled but that is not a problem [as long as this simple teletext service continues, I will use it.  If they ever stop the service and move to hbbtv-only then I would probably choose to use my browser and go to their website anyway].

 

Thank you both for your help. 

 

I realised that I had had an installation problem with the add-on as soon as I started the reinstallation - I saw the attached dialog and I had definitely not seen that during the initial installation.  So I must have left Outlook 2007 or Windows defender running the first time and one of them had corrupted the installation.

 

- - - - - - - -

 

My initial question was prompted by the teletext entry being greyed out.  Whilst I now appreciate that I should have realised that "teletext" was being used in its international sense & that I should have been asking about mheg5 interactive digital services, we all just say "teletext" here when referring to it.  In the next day or so I will raise a new forum thread

- called something like How to get "Teletext", "Digital teletext", "Digital interactive services", "MHEG5 interactive services" in  the UK, RoI, NZ, ... [teletext menu item greyed out] so that I catch all the search terms people might try. 

- I'll explain that the menu item "teletext" refers to foreign teletext services and that we need to buy the add-on. 

- I will explain what the difference is in the very broadest of terms and will mention hbbtv services as well.

- I will mention that there is further scope for confusion because some people seem to refer to teletext as being the method by which DVB-T provides subtitles.

- I'll explain the Help, Order/Unlock route for finding the add-on and ordering it.

- I'll explain how to use the keyboard F5, F6, F7, F8 keys and how to navigate around without a remote.

- I will include disabling hbbtv but I will note that this might be a quirk of my own computer / keyboard rather than a limitation that necessarily applies to everybody.

 

I will also be amending my Amazon.co.uk review of the Hauppauge WinTV DualHD {my username there is Londain} to tell people that it is possible to get "teletext" {it is a UK & Republic of Ireland audience} by buying DVBViewer & the MHEG5 add-on.  I'll leave this until after I have written the explanatory thread in this forum so that I can tell Amazon customers to see that thread for details.

 

Denis

this did not appear the first time.png

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Griga
13 minutes ago, Try*3 said:

Whilst I now appreciate that I should have realised that "teletext" was being used in its international sense & that I should have been asking about mheg5 interactive digital services, we all just say "teletext" here when referring to it. 

 

Thanks for clarification. That's something to keep in mind...

 

Maybe we can provide a test version if Christian finds fixes concerning this matter and if you are interested. I will post here when such a modification is ready. The availability of HbbTV and MHEG5 is new for us.

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hackbart

Yes, there is a small fix i made which ignores non existing links inside the AIT. AIT is some table with urls which are used to load the HbbTV content from a server. According to your screenshot and .log you have links to index.html without any url in combination. I assume because the streams do have some basic html content sent via dvb. I now ignore these kind of links and allow only regular URLs. HbbTV and Mheg5 should run parallel without any problems. If both are available HbbTV will be preferred. At least in theory, because i never saw such a hybrid till today. Can you also try to play some iPlayer streams? Do they work? If not maybe you can start the DVBViewer in debug mode again and provide us the log file, after selecting a video. 

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Try*3

Yes, I will always be willing to test anything for DVBViewer. 

 

Griga - I can see from that picture you posted earlier today that you are getting "mheg5 interactive digital text services"**  on BBC News HD whilst I cannot only get them on BBC News {SD}. 

- I will experiment with one of my old computers to see how they behave just in case it is a quirk of my current one. 

- You use FreeSat & I know that it does not use exactly the same combination of technical standards so it might be something to do with that [possibly].

- ** That's why we just keep saying "teletext".

 

HackBart - Yes, I'll find something to play in BBC iPlayer and let you know how I get on.  If there are any problems, I'll include debug mode and post a support.zip.

 

Denis

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Griga
1 hour ago, hackbart said:

Can you also try to play some iPlayer streams? Do they work?

 

I think this refers to HbbTV. Christian wants to know if it is possible to start playback by selecting a HbbTV video item. We can't test it because the BBC content is geo-blocked. Freesat is kind of geo-blocked as well by means of a spot beam, but fortunately it can still be received in the western part of Germany. In Hamburg, Berlin or Munich you are lost without a monster dish.

 

AFAIK starting playback from the MHEG5 environment is not implemented. Open URL is only suitable for URLs directly pointing to an audio/video file or live stream. Starting the BBC player in this way won't work.

 

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Try*3

I opened hbbtv using the vbs file you gave me and selected some of the news clips but each one failed after a few seconds of a spinning wheel then displayed the [attached] dialog .

 

Because of my experiences earlier today, I used the Tweaker to disable MHEG5 in case it would help.  I tried again with the same result & the same error dialog.

 

Support.zip attached

 

I will try again later this evening in case the BBC really did have a temporary problem from about 17:00 to about 17:20 during my tests.  I will post again if there is any difference.

 

BBC hbbtv error dialog.jpg

20180215 171949 support.zip

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Try*3

[deleted]

Edited by Try*3
further experiment results not consistent with what I wrote in the post

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hackbart

ah okay, i see that i'm blocked here at a certain point. You got a few more requests and you also get a error message. 

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Try*3
14 minutes ago, hackbart said:

ah okay, i see that i'm blocked here at a certain point. You got a few more requests and you also get a error message. 

 

That last [non-deleted] post of mine above yours with the diagram of a BBC error message is my response to your request to try BBC iPlayer [i.e. to play clips from BBC hbbtv].  support.zip attached just below that diagram.

Edited by Try*3

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Try*3

I just tried the BBC hbbtv again with the same results, trying to play a news clip yielded the attached error dialog.  Support.zip attached.

 

I then opened my browser, went to their website and played one of the failing clips successfully.

20180216 125206 support.zip

Screenshot (277).jpg

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Griga

Thanks for testing. Christian is looking after it (and found a way around geo-blocking), but it seems that there is some content protection so that it can't be loaded / viewed without sending a certificate to the server. I doubt that we will get it from the BBC ;)

 

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