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EPG running status AND PDC


jirim100

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What is the difference between "EPG running status" AND "PDC"? Is it the same? Or are these two different things in transport stream?

Maybe somewhere it was answered but I still don't understand clearly.

 

For example here is the log of recording where are valid PDC values:

Spoiler
CT 2 HD T2 17.11.2021
W:\For The Record\Manu a Matěj na cestě po jižní Itálii (6. díl); vysíláno 2021-11-17; HD T2.aac
Naming Scheme: %name; vysíláno %year-%m-%d; HD T2
Device: Digital Devices DVB-T2 Tuner 1 (11)
EventID: 49013
Timer Name: Manu a Matěj na cestě po jižní Itálii (6. díl)
Timer Start: 17.11.2021 21:30:00
Timer Duration: 01:00:00 (60 min. incl. 15 min. lead time, 15 min. follow-up time)
Timer Options: Teletext=1, DVB Subtitles=1, All Audio Tracks=1, Adjust PAT/PMT=1, EIT EPG Data=1, Transponder Dump=0
Timer Source: API

21:30:01 / 00:00:00 (~ 0,00 MB) Start Recording
21:30:02 / 00:00:01 (~ 0,00 MB) Krajinou domova III, Hornatiny running | EventID: 48992 PDC: 0x8DD4F
21:30:02 / 00:00:01 (~ 0,01 MB) PID 2220: LATM AAC Audio Stereo, 48 khz, 127 kbps
21:30:02 / 00:00:01 (~ 0,01 MB) Manu a Matěj na cestě po jižní Itálii not running | EventID: 49013 PDC: 0x8DD6D
21:31:35 / 00:01:34 (~ 1,42 MB) Krajinou domova III, Hornatiny running | EventID: 48992 PDC: 0x8DD4F
21:31:35 / 00:01:34 (~ 1,42 MB) Manu a Matěj na cestě po jižní Itálii not running | EventID: 49013 PDC: 0x8DD6D
21:44:39 / 00:14:38 (~ 13,38 MB) Krajinou domova III, Hornatiny not running | EventID: 48992 PDC: 0x8DD4F
21:44:40 / 00:14:39 (~ 13,38 MB) Manu a Matěj na cestě po jižní Itálii not running | EventID: 49013 PDC: 0x8DD6D
21:45:09 / 00:15:08 (~ 13,84 MB) Manu a Matěj na cestě po jižní Itálii not running | EventID: 49013 PDC: 0x8DD6D
21:45:09 / 00:15:08 (~ 13,84 MB) Industrie - Továrna na kapitalismus not running | EventID: 49034 PDC: 0x8DD8F
21:49:20 / 00:19:19 (~ 17,66 MB) Manu a Matěj na cestě po jižní Itálii starts in a few seconds | EventID: 49013 PDC: 0x8DD6D
21:49:21 / 00:19:20 (~ 17,69 MB) Industrie - Továrna na kapitalismus not running | EventID: 49034 PDC: 0x8DD8F
21:49:49 / 00:19:48 (~ 18,12 MB) Manu a Matěj na cestě po jižní Itálii running | EventID: 49013 PDC: 0x8DD6D
21:49:50 / 00:19:49 (~ 18,14 MB) Industrie - Továrna na kapitalismus not running | EventID: 49034 PDC: 0x8DD8F
21:51:29 / 00:21:28 (~ 19,63 MB) Manu a Matěj na cestě po jižní Itálii running | EventID: 49013 PDC: 0x8DD6D
21:51:30 / 00:21:29 (~ 19,65 MB) Industrie - Továrna na kapitalismus not running | EventID: 49034 PDC: 0x8DD8F
21:55:02 / 00:25:01 (~ 22,89 MB) Industrie - Továrna na kapitalismus not running | EventID: 49034 PDC: 0x8DD8F
21:55:03 / 00:25:02 (~ 22,91 MB) Manu a Matěj na cestě po jižní Itálii running | EventID: 49013 PDC: 0x8DD6D
21:56:32 / 00:26:31 (~ 24,25 MB) Manu a Matěj na cestě po jižní Itálii running | EventID: 49013 PDC: 0x8DD6D
21:56:33 / 00:26:31 (~ 24,25 MB) Industrie - Továrna na kapitalismus not running | EventID: 49034 PDC: 0x8DD8F
22:15:39 / 00:45:38 (~ 41,77 MB) Industrie - Továrna na kapitalismus not running | EventID: 49034 PDC: 0x8DD8F
22:15:39 / 00:45:38 (~ 41,77 MB) Bezesné noci not running | EventID: 49056 PDC: 0x8DDAD
22:21:31 / 00:51:30 (~ 47,14 MB) Industrie - Továrna na kapitalismus not running | EventID: 49034 PDC: 0x8DD8F
22:21:31 / 00:51:30 (~ 47,14 MB) Bezesné noci not running | EventID: 49056 PDC: 0x8DDAD
22:22:04 / 00:52:03 (~ 47,63 MB) Industrie - Továrna na kapitalismus starts in a few seconds | EventID: 49034 PDC: 0x8DD8F
22:22:04 / 00:52:03 (~ 47,63 MB) Bezesné noci not running | EventID: 49056 PDC: 0x8DDAD
22:22:34 / 00:52:33 (~ 48,09 MB) Industrie - Továrna na kapitalismus running | EventID: 49034 PDC: 0x8DD8F
22:22:34 / 00:52:33 (~ 48,09 MB) Bezesné noci not running | EventID: 49056 PDC: 0x8DDAD
22:26:28 / 00:56:27 (~ 51,66 MB) Industrie - Továrna na kapitalismus running | EventID: 49034 PDC: 0x8DD8F
22:26:29 / 00:56:28 (~ 51,68 MB) Bezesné noci not running | EventID: 49056 PDC: 0x8DDAD
22:30:00 / 00:59:59 (~ 54,91 MB) Stop

Average Data Rate: 0,015 MB/s
Total Size: 54,9 MB (57574868 Bytes)

 

 

As you can see in log above there are "xxx not running", "xxx starts in a few seconds", "xxx running" - I suppose this is EPG running status.

 

How corelate "PDC" with this "EPG running status"? And if don't corelate - has programme with concrete PDC value its own beginning and ending of programme which was not writted in this log? Is "PDC start/end of programme" more precise than "EPG running status"?

 

If is PDC different thing - can be written "PDC start/end programme" to log too??

 

 

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PDC is part of the broadcasted EPG data. It is the originally intended start time of a programme, coded as two bytes. The actual start time may change, but the original start time of a programme always remains the same. That's why it's sometimes called PIL (Programme Identification Label). It can be used by recorders to recognize a programme, even if everything else changes.

 

Imagine a timer that has been created for recording a particular programme. The next day a new EPG version is broadcasted. In this version, the title of the programme changed (maybe something has been added). The actual start time and duration changed too, because a sport event was inserted in the programme sequence. Now how can the Media Server recognize the programme that it shall record? Difficult... but not with a PIL, because it doesn't change.

 

In combination with the running status, PDC (Programme Delivery Control) enables the recorder to start and stop a recording "just in time". As soon as a programme with a certain stored PDC value gets signaled as "running", the recording starts. As soon as another programme with another PDC value is signalled as running, the recording stops. In this way the start/stop times are actually controlled by the broadcaster. This can be achieved in the Media Server by selecting "Start / Stop by EPG running status" in the "EPG Monitoring" drop-down list. The "Start / End time update from EPG" option lets the Media Server update changed EPG times in the timer, but the start/stop times (including lead and follow-up time) are controlled by the recorder, without checking the running status.

 

By default the Media Server only performs EPG monitoring, if a PDC is present. Other methods are not reliable enough. The Event ID could be used for this purpose if all broadcasters would use it in a reliable way. Unfortunately this is not the case. Some broadcasters change the Event ID of programmes on EPG updates. So it's a bit risky to use it for programme recognition and EPG monitoring. If you want to try, you can use the "EPG Event ID usage on timer handling" tweak (-> launch DMSTweaker.bat).

 

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Ok. If I understand correctly only "EPG running status" identifies start and end of "some programme" in transport stream. "Event ID" value and "PDC" value only identifies whether program is, for example, my planned "sport tenis event" or my planned "movie Hellboy" etc.

--------------------------------------------------------

I recorded another video. See log:

Spoiler
CT 3 HD T2 18.11.2021
W:\For The Record\O poklad Anežky České; ; ; ; vysíláno 2021-11-18.ts
Naming Scheme: %name; ; ; ; vysíláno %year-%m-%d
Device: Digital Devices DVB-T2 Tuner 1 (11)
EventID: 1400015328
Timer Name: O poklad Anežky České
Timer Start: 18.11.2021 17:00:00
Timer Duration: 01:10:00 (70 min. incl. 15 min. lead time, 15 min. follow-up time)
Timer Options: Teletext=1, DVB Subtitles=1, All Audio Tracks=1, Adjust PAT/PMT=1, EIT EPG Data=1, Transponder Dump=0
Timer Source: Web
Monitoring Mode: None

17:11:34 / 00:00:00 (~ 0,00 MB) Start Recording
17:11:35 / 00:00:01 (~ 0,16 MB) PID 2610: HEVC Video, 16:9, 1920x1080, 50 fps
17:11:35 / 00:00:01 (~ 0,16 MB) PID 2620: LATM AAC Audio Stereo, 48 khz, 126 kbps
17:11:35 / 00:00:01 (~ 0,16 MB) PID 2623: LATM AAC Audio Mono, 48 khz, 64 kbps
17:11:35 / 00:00:01 (~ 0,16 MB) PID 2130: Videotext
17:11:36 / 00:00:01 (~ 0,16 MB) Preceptor running | EventID: 18049 PDC: 0x95C00
17:11:36 / 00:00:02 (~ 0,16 MB) O poklad Anežky České not running | EventID: 18101 PDC: 0x95C4F
17:12:58 / 00:01:23 (~ 40,01 MB) Preceptor not running | EventID: 18049 PDC: 0x95C00
17:12:58 / 00:01:23 (~ 40,01 MB) O poklad Anežky České not running | EventID: 18101 PDC: 0x95C4F
17:14:40 / 00:03:05 (~ 82,85 MB) Preceptor not running | EventID: 18049 PDC: 0x95C00
17:14:40 / 00:03:06 (~ 83,37 MB) O poklad Anežky České starts in a few seconds | EventID: 18101 PDC: 0x95C4F
17:15:10 / 00:03:36 (~ 97,79 MB) O poklad Anežky České running | EventID: 18101 PDC: 0x95C4F
17:15:10 / 00:03:36 (~ 97,79 MB) Haló, haló!, Allo Allo not running | EventID: 18133 PDC: 0x95C77
17:15:22 / 00:03:48 (~ 105,32 MB) PID 2650: DVB Subtitles
17:55:14 / 00:43:39 (~ 972,87 MB) Haló, haló!, Allo Allo not running | EventID: 18133 PDC: 0x95C77
17:55:14 / 00:43:40 (~ 972,87 MB) Haló, haló!, Allo Allo not running | EventID: 18148 PDC: 0x95C94
17:56:43 / 00:45:09 (~ 1021,40 MB) Haló, haló!, Allo Allo starts in a few seconds | EventID: 18133 PDC: 0x95C77
17:56:44 / 00:45:09 (~ 1021,40 MB) Haló, haló!, Allo Allo not running | EventID: 18148 PDC: 0x95C94
17:57:14 / 00:45:39 (~ 1036,90 MB) Haló, haló!, Allo Allo running | EventID: 18133 PDC: 0x95C77
17:57:14 / 00:45:39 (~ 1036,90 MB) Haló, haló!, Allo Allo not running | EventID: 18148 PDC: 0x95C94
18:02:23 / 00:50:49 (~ 1177,61 MB) Stop

Average Data Rate: 0,386 MB/s
Total Size: 1177,6 MB (1234811636 Bytes)

 

From the log programme "O poklad Anežky České" start at 17:15:10 / 00:03:36 and end at 17:57:14 / 00:45:39.

 

But when I analyzed the recorded .ts file by the application Cypheros TS-Doctor 3.2.13 - it found the start of programme at 00:03:32 and end at 00:45:36. The values founded by the TS Doctor are more close to real start and end of the programme than times from DMS (about 3 secods, real start of programme is at 00:03:31 and end at 00:43:35). Here is the screenshot from TSDoctor:

Jrm80au.png

 

Is it possible to log values of "EPG running status" more precise?

 

After recording is complete I analyze this log file and precise values of "EPG running state" helps me to analyze the real start and end of programme. I use for it OpenCV library in c# language. But I analyze only -4seconds/+4seconds around the start/end times from the log file (a wider time window is not worth analyzing). Therefore the precision of start/end programme in log file is very helpfull and critical. 

 

Recorded .ts file you can download from here https://wetransfer.com/downloads/30a78b33f0c9cc2f0fee5eb8cd51ad9720211118173549/45f3b9.

Edited by jirim100
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4 hours ago, Griga said:

PDC is part of the broadcasted EPG data.

I suppose PDC is a part of "EPG present" and "EPG following" structure and I suppose PDC change along with all fields inside these structures. When for example is "EPG present" filled by the "movie Hellboy" - exactly at this time is changed PDC inside this struct to correct value (and I suppose the same is valid for EventID value in the log file).  Or can exist different scenario? Why exist time difference between DMS and TSDoctor? Both have the same .ts data.

 

And I suppose times for events "xxx running", "xxx not running", "xxx starts in a few second" don't depends on the settings of the DMS - option "EPG monitoring" neither tweak "EPG Event ID usage on timer handling".

Edited by jirim100
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Another comparing with TS Doctor:
Here is recording log:

Spoiler
CT 2 HD T2 18.11.2021
W:\For The Record\Uchem jehly; ; ; ; vysíláno 2021-11-18.ts
Naming Scheme: %name; ; ; ; vysíláno %year-%m-%d
Device: Digital Devices DVB-T2 Tuner 1 (11)
EventID: 1400019424
Timer Name: Uchem jehly
Timer Start: 18.11.2021 19:00:00
Timer Duration: 00:57:00 (57 min. incl. 15 min. lead time, 15 min. follow-up time)
Timer Options: Teletext=1, DVB Subtitles=1, All Audio Tracks=1, Adjust PAT/PMT=1, EIT EPG Data=1, Transponder Dump=0
Timer Source: Web

19:04:12 / 00:00:00 (~ 0,00 MB) Start Recording
19:04:14 / 00:00:01 (~ 0,00 MB) Auto moto svět running | EventID: 18165 PDC: 0x95CAD
19:04:14 / 00:00:01 (~ 0,00 MB) Uchem jehly not running | EventID: 18186 PDC: 0x95CCF
19:04:15 / 00:00:02 (~ 0,13 MB) PID 2210: HEVC Video, 16:9, 1920x1080, 50 fps
19:04:15 / 00:00:02 (~ 0,13 MB) PID 2220: LATM AAC Audio Stereo, 48 khz, 123 kbps
19:04:15 / 00:00:02 (~ 0,13 MB) PID 2221: LATM AAC Audio Stereo, 48 khz, 121 kbps
19:04:15 / 00:00:02 (~ 0,13 MB) PID 2222: AC3 Audio Stereo, 48 khz, 448 kbps
19:04:15 / 00:00:02 (~ 0,13 MB) PID 2223: LATM AAC Audio Mono, 48 khz, 64 kbps
19:04:15 / 00:00:02 (~ 0,13 MB) PID 2130: Videotext
19:04:18 / 00:00:05 (~ 1,60 MB) PID 2250: DVB Subtitles
19:13:23 / 00:09:10 (~ 427,99 MB) Auto moto svět not running | EventID: 18165 PDC: 0x95CAD
19:13:23 / 00:09:10 (~ 427,99 MB) Uchem jehly not running | EventID: 18186 PDC: 0x95CCF
19:15:10 / 00:10:57 (~ 506,28 MB) Uchem jehly not running | EventID: 18186 PDC: 0x95CCF
19:15:11 / 00:10:58 (~ 506,28 MB) Postřehy odjinud, Západ Francie očima Jana Šmída not running | EventID: 18205 PDC: 0x95CE8
19:15:36 / 00:11:23 (~ 527,31 MB) Uchem jehly starts in a few seconds | EventID: 18186 PDC: 0x95CCF
19:15:36 / 00:11:23 (~ 528,27 MB) Postřehy odjinud, Západ Francie očima Jana Šmída not running | EventID: 18205 PDC: 0x95CE8
19:16:05 / 00:11:53 (~ 551,99 MB) Uchem jehly running | EventID: 18186 PDC: 0x95CCF
19:16:06 / 00:11:53 (~ 553,16 MB) Postřehy odjinud, Západ Francie očima Jana Šmída not running | EventID: 18205 PDC: 0x95CE8
19:16:28 / 00:12:15 (~ 573,00 MB) Uchem jehly running | EventID: 18186 PDC: 0x95CCF
19:16:29 / 00:12:16 (~ 573,76 MB) Postřehy odjinud, Západ Francie očima Jana Šmída not running | EventID: 18205 PDC: 0x95CE8
19:21:28 / 00:17:15 (~ 765,20 MB) Uchem jehly running | EventID: 18186 PDC: 0x95CCF
19:21:29 / 00:17:16 (~ 765,84 MB) Postřehy odjinud, Západ Francie očima Jana Šmída not running | EventID: 18205 PDC: 0x95CE8
19:42:00 / 00:37:47 (~ 1716,65 MB) Postřehy odjinud, Západ Francie očima Jana Šmída not running | EventID: 18205 PDC: 0x95CE8
19:42:00 / 00:37:48 (~ 1717,10 MB) Zprávy v českém znakovém jazyce not running | EventID: 18210 PDC: 0x95CF2
19:42:36 / 00:38:23 (~ 1746,19 MB) Postřehy odjinud, Západ Francie očima Jana Šmída starts in a few seconds | EventID: 18205 PDC: 0x95CE8
19:42:36 / 00:38:23 (~ 1746,19 MB) Zprávy v českém znakovém jazyce not running | EventID: 18210 PDC: 0x95CF2
19:43:06 / 00:38:53 (~ 1772,21 MB) Postřehy odjinud, Západ Francie očima Jana Šmída running | EventID: 18205 PDC: 0x95CE8
19:43:06 / 00:38:53 (~ 1772,90 MB) Zprávy v českém znakovém jazyce not running | EventID: 18210 PDC: 0x95CF2
19:48:30 / 00:44:17 (~ 2063,63 MB) Postřehy odjinud, Západ Francie očima Jana Šmída not running | EventID: 18205 PDC: 0x95CE8
19:48:30 / 00:44:17 (~ 2063,63 MB) Zprávy v českém znakovém jazyce not running | EventID: 18210 PDC: 0x95CF2
19:49:40 / 00:45:27 (~ 2099,49 MB) Postřehy odjinud, Západ Francie očima Jana Šmída not running | EventID: 18205 PDC: 0x95CE8
19:49:41 / 00:45:28 (~ 2099,49 MB) Zprávy v českém znakovém jazyce starts in a few seconds | EventID: 18210 PDC: 0x95CF2
19:50:10 / 00:45:57 (~ 2112,47 MB) Zprávy v českém znakovém jazyce running | EventID: 18210 PDC: 0x95CF2
19:50:11 / 00:45:58 (~ 2112,96 MB) Povolání: královna not running | EventID: 18217 PDC: 0x95D00
19:51:28 / 00:47:16 (~ 2154,28 MB) Zprávy v českém znakovém jazyce running | EventID: 18210 PDC: 0x95CF2
19:51:29 / 00:47:16 (~ 2155,03 MB) Povolání: královna not running | EventID: 18217 PDC: 0x95D00
19:56:28 / 00:52:15 (~ 2341,62 MB) Zprávy v českém znakovém jazyce running | EventID: 18210 PDC: 0x95CF2
19:56:29 / 00:52:16 (~ 2342,27 MB) Povolání: královna not running | EventID: 18217 PDC: 0x95D00
19:57:00 / 00:52:47 (~ 2363,50 MB) Stop

Average Data Rate: 0,746 MB/s
Total Size: 2363,5 MB (2478309060 Bytes)

 

 

And here is a part of this log:

19:42:36 / 00:38:23 (~ 1746,19 MB) Postřehy odjinud, Západ Francie očima Jana Šmída starts in a few seconds | EventID: 18205 PDC: 0x95CE8
19:42:36 / 00:38:23 (~ 1746,19 MB) Zprávy v českém znakovém jazyce not running | EventID: 18210 PDC: 0x95CF2
19:43:06 / 00:38:53 (~ 1772,21 MB) Postřehy odjinud, Západ Francie očima Jana Šmída running | EventID: 18205 PDC: 0x95CE8
19:43:06 / 00:38:53 (~ 1772,90 MB) Zprávy v českém znakovém jazyce not running | EventID: 18210 PDC: 0x95CF2
19:48:30 / 00:44:17 (~ 2063,63 MB) Postřehy odjinud, Západ Francie očima Jana Šmída not running | EventID: 18205 PDC: 0x95CE8
19:48:30 / 00:44:17 (~ 2063,63 MB) Zprávy v českém znakovém jazyce not running | EventID: 18210 PDC: 0x95CF2

 

And here is output from TSDoctor (Edit->Detect commercials->EPG mode):

image.thumb.png.d3f1fb58f5db1d6daf1ee8c9a5a98ebd.png

 

As you can see TSDoctor found aroud time 00:38:50 two times: 00:38:50 and 00:38:52 but DMS only time 00:38:53. The times founded by TSDoctor more exactly present the real start/end programmes in .ts file (when you check it by VLC player or MPC HC player).

 

Recorded .ts you can download from here https://www.transfernow.net/en/dltransfer?utm_source=20211119Vlfk6qq1&utm_medium=F8S6IRMD.

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23 hours ago, jirim100 said:

Why exist time difference between DMS and TSDoctor?

 

I don't know. A possible reason is that times in the log originate from the Windows system time. I guess the TS Doctor times are derived from time stamps in the TS file (PCR = Program Clock reference, PTS = Presentation Time Stamps, which are no human-readable wall clock times, but the output of a 27 MHz clock generator in the broadcaster's encoder). Additionally it may have influence that the Media Server receives a live stream, where data doesn't arrive continuously, but in chunks, due to buffering in the driver (possibly some MB) , which implies a delay particularly for data at the beginning of the buffer.

 

Anyway, please note that the recording log is not designed for precise time measurement, and it will never be. If you want more precision, you need to read the TS file itself, not the recording log.

 

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Ok. But without regards of the type of the timing in the second case it looks as one "EPG running state" transition is missing in the log (about time 00:38:50).

When is active recording with enabled monitoring "EPG running state" and PDC use DMS internally for this the same "EPG running state" transitions which are written to log?

And if is answer no (but I don't expect negative answer) - can be the same values written to log?

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