pc shuts down during HD encoding

[johnoo]

hi this is not really a dvbveiwer problem but kinda linked to it.Today I captured wimbledon in BBCHD(about 2-3 hours)on my backup machine(not that powerful but still its a amd dual core 4400 and geforce 8500gs with 2gbs of ram)the capture went without problems(athough as most of you know its the graphics card doing the work and not cpu).I was then asked by someone at a tennis forum if I could upload some of it,so I cut the last game with h264ts_cutter which came to about 1gb.I then used the arcsoft totalmedia to convert to mp4,twice near the end of the encode the pc shutdown without warning,I then tried divx convertor with the same result.Playing the HD video is fine using mpc using about 50% cpu.Although the psu is a 450 watt its generic so I'm replacing with a coolermaster 500,the case has plenty of fans and the temps are 30:mobo,36:cpu.I'm guessing its either the psu or cpu shutting the machine down,anybody had any experience of this happening? because too be honest I have no idea,I've read something about ‘Affinity’ setting and turning off one of the cores may help,again I have no idea if this will help.is it possible the cpu is not powerful enough for HD encoding or maybe on its way out? thanks for any replies/thoughts.

[CellZapper]

Has it ever worked, this application and this type of file, on this PC. I have 30 years troubleshooting experience on computers, that is the first question I ask.......

 

You dont say how long the conversion takes, from your description I would think the problem is (1) overheating of some component ...unlikly considering your quoted temperatures, (2) psu ...this I think is an overated cause of problems, (3) the application failing to cope with the task...my most probably cause. maybe a lack of disk/memory/swap file management at a critical moment.

 

I suggest you try to cut the size of the task in half (cut the recording in 2 before recoding) and try again.

 

The "power/speed" of the PC is irrelavant to the problem, a slower Pc just takes longer.

 

hope this is of some help

[johnoo]

Has it ever worked, this application and this type of file, on this PC. I have 30 years troubleshooting experience on computers, that is the first question I ask.......

 

You dont say how long the conversion takes, from your description I would think the problem is (1) overheating of some component ...unlikly considering your quoted temperatures, (2) psu ...this I think is an overated cause of problems, (3) the application failing to cope with the task...my most probably cause. maybe a lack of disk/memory/swap file management at a critical moment.

 

I suggest you try to cut the size of the task in half (cut the recording in 2 before recoding) and try again.

 

The "power/speed" of the PC is irrelavant to the problem, a slower Pc just takes longer.

 

hope this is of some help

hi thanks for the reply this is the first time on that machine I had tried to convert HD,the machine powered off with the arcsoft and divx software almost straight away.its really just a machine for backup tv captures that I built myself recently and have hardly used,I don't know the mobo & cpu history as it was taking from a machine that was being upgraded(cpu/heatsink had not been taken off) .The new coolermaster 500 psu came today and as I had to go out I just fitted and tried the conversion again with the divx and it encoded no problem with no power down,I will test the arcsoft tomorrow.The generic(really crappy lightweight job) psu claims to be a 480w but (and I know very little about psu's) seems to have a very low total output of 220w.

readings on the psu are +3.3v&+5v MAX O/P-220W

even a spare casecom 350w psu I have has a total O/P of 235w while I think the coolermaster is about 330w.

On a sidenote I'm amazed what a great job the divx convertor did of the encode,you can download it here if you get the time.

http://rapidshare.com/files/248651104/Wozn...09_lastgame.mkv

my main problem now is that the h264ts_cutter gave a error next cut and now won't work under vista,I could really do with a similiar cutter as I have no desire to convert 16gb files

[CellZapper]

Hi Johnoo

 

It seems the psu fixed the main problem ( so much for my poo pooing the psu)

 

most current motherboards hit the 12volts for all they have to supply the cpu special voltages.

so check the 12 volt rails power output (all them fets next to the cpu chip.) its a black art.

 

the 5 and 3.3 are used in the main for the pci and other buss power, and for mobo chips and drives etc.

 

the big problem with the generic psu is the quality of the plugs, check they are pluged in well.

 

cant offer much advice on the h624ts cutter area, its my next problem to solve as well but I have other problems to solve first.

 

regards

[johnoo]

Hi Johnoo

 

It seems the psu fixed the main problem ( so much for my poo pooing the psu)

 

most current motherboards hit the 12volts for all they have to supply the cpu special voltages.

so check the 12 volt rails power output (all them fets next to the cpu chip.) its a black art.

 

the 5 and 3.3 are used in the main for the pci and other buss power, and for mobo chips and drives etc.

 

the big problem with the generic psu is the quality of the plugs, check they are pluged in well.

 

cant offer much advice on the h624ts cutter area, its my next problem to solve as well but I have other problems to solve first.

 

regards

Well I thought it was sorted but its not sadly,after putting in longer encodes(just mpeg2) it once again cut out.I checked out the cpu temp as it encoded and once it got to over 60% it powered off(max temp according to amd for this cpu is 71% so I guess its getting near that).I tried it with the affinity set to one core and the temp stayed down and the encode finished(but with a error from the divx convertor) it will encode small files with both cores but anything longer and the cpu temp raises.the mobo stays about 30% and if you stop the encode cpu goes down to 36%.I have taken the heatsink off and the thermal paste looked ok.since this is a AMD2+ I think rather than re-using I will buy a AMD Athlon X2 7850 2.8GHz Black Edition Socket AM2+ 3MB Cache from ebuyer(I don't need anything bigger than that and the price is right).I've had this mobo for about 6 months now and its captured hours of hdtv,sdtv and I guess if I had not deceided to encode I would never have found out.Its really just a backup capture machine using a spare cable from my sat lnb.probaley if I had played games on it that might have caused the same problem as well,trouble is I can't find out if the previous owner had issues.As for a cutter well I tried the TS Packet Editor freeware version and it works well(not tried the old free version yet) trouble is its expensive,but the real problem is the license is linked to the hardware of a pc,I don't really fancy transferring 16gbs of hd video to another pc just to cut a little bit out.

[CellZapper]

it will encode small files with both cores but anything longer and the cpu temp raises.the mobo stays about 30% and if you stop the encode cpu goes down to 36%.I have taken the heatsink off and the thermal paste looked ok.since this is a AMD2+ I think rather than re-using I will buy a AMD Athlon X2 7850 2.8GHz Black Edition Socket AM2+ 3MB Cache

 

Johnoo

beware it sounds like your heatsink was not mounted correctly, the problem may be the with the mobo where the heatsink latches onto the cpu socket. If the socket is damaged then the new heatsink (with the new CPU) will not fit correctly either and you will overheat the new cpu.

 

I am assuming the original heatsink was the correct type and the fan was working at the correct speed. AMD 2+cpus all require fans, and the fans are usually driven by software/mobo controlled speed controllers, if the fan does not run at full speed when the cpu is hot the mobo fan driver chip may be faulty.

 

do not refit the heatsink without fresh paste, the old paste WILL NOT spead correctly, refitting the heatsink without new paste may have been the cause of your problem, The interface between the cpu chip and heat sink is critical.

 

Chris

[johnoo]

Johnoo

beware it sounds like your heatsink was not mounted correctly, the problem may be the with the mobo where the heatsink latches onto the cpu socket. If the socket is damaged then the new heatsink (with the new CPU) will not fit correctly either and you will overheat the new cpu.

 

I am assuming the original heatsink was the correct type and the fan was working at the correct speed. AMD 2+cpus all require fans, and the fans are usually driven by software/mobo controlled speed controllers, if the fan does not run at full speed when the cpu is hot the mobo fan driver chip may be faulty.

 

do not refit the heatsink without fresh paste, the old paste WILL NOT spead correctly, refitting the heatsink without new paste may have been the cause of your problem, The interface between the cpu chip and heat sink is critical.

 

Chris

hi sorry for the late reply but I have been away,your spot on with it being the heatsink/paste.The hestsink was a OEM amd,came off pretty easy(although I did make sure the pc was on for a while because I know from a previous experience the pads really bond to the cpu) just a guess but maybe the previous owner had used pad and paste? anyway I cleaned the cpu and heatsink with a lint free cloth and brake cleaner,my intention was to buy thermal compound but I seen a OEM amd am2 fan/heatsink at ebay for under £5GBP(inl p&p) from a vendor I trusted.This came next day and I refitted the cpu with the new h/s fan.The temp of the cpu while idling(checking in bios and using speedfan) was 35%,I left it running for a while and then deceided to do a large encode,leaving speedfan running to check temps,despite it being hot in the uk the max it reach during the encode was 45% cpu,about 51% core and never went above that.when the encode was finished succesfully 45 minutes later the temps dropped back to 35% so all is good now In some ways I would have liked to have used thermal paste(as although I have built many pc's I have always just used pads and OEM heatsink)just to see how it went,but TBH as this machine won't be overclocked or anything the price of a new oem h/s fan was really for me the sensible option.thanks for your help and interest CellZapper,its thanks to the likes of you and other guys on the internet I picked up very useful info,like making sure the pc is really warmed up before taking the h/s off(obvious now but the last time I did it on a old machine the cpu was dragged out the socket still stuck to the h/s) so I think its pretty important people stay with there thread till the outcome and maybe theres something in there to help when they have a problem and do a google search.

[CellZapper]

Hi Johnoo

 

I am pleased you are fixed.

 

The heatsink pad is doing its job so don't feel you need paste. Stock heatsinks are fine or most normal applications.

 

For any one following this thread who has a question about heat sink paste v pads

 

Always use a new pad or paste, clean of the old residue thoroughly.

 

I cannot make it clear enough DON'T re-use heatsink pads.

 

paste out-performs a pad, if you have problems with a pad in use, paste may well fix the problem, do look for other problems, may-be the pad has been reused.

 

there is a lot of hype about paste, generally a silicon based white paste will out perform the expensive products.

 

tests have shown silver and copper loaded pastes do not live up to the hype, they do work just as well in general.

 

there is in fact only a few percent difference between most paste products, the heat sink is the thing doing the real job.

 

the latesr generation of heat sinks, H.D.T. (Heat-pipe direct touch) technology.out-perform most water cooling and are half the price of the best air cooling competion.

 

(I use a Xigmatek HDT-S1283, its a bit big, on one of my systems, amd black phenom quad overclocked, it is 6 months old and so may have been replaced at the top of the list, google frostytech for some great test reviews on heat sinks and paste)

 

hope this is of help

 

Chris