TCP mode SAT>IP

[Retrofan]

Hi,

 

The latest beta of the DVBViewer Media Server has a nice option to switch between UDP and TCP mode for SAT>IP.

However, does the AVM Fritz!Box 6690 Cable also support the TCP mode?

Is there a way to check if the hardware does support it? If TCP mode isn't available, it switches back to UDP mode, however, it's not visible for the user.

If TCP isn't available right now, we have to ask AVM to implement this.

[Griga]

If the Sat>IP server does not support TCP interleaved transport mode, it is supposed to respond with a "461 Unsupported Transport" (or similar) error to the SETUP command. In debug mode (see Windows start menu -> DVBViewer) DVBViewer writes the error message to the DVBViewer.log (see configuration folder) before falling back to UDP mode.

 

I'm not yet sure about the best way to handle it in DVBViewer. Fall silently back to UDP, as it is done now? Display the error in the UI with/without falling back to UDP mode? What do you think?

 

4 hours ago, Retrofan said:

If TCP isn't available right now, we have to ask AVM to implement this.

 

One of the main reasons for using TCP interleaved transport mode (dropout prevention) doesn't seem to be so relevant in case of a Fritz!Box Cable as Sat>IP server. It has full control over the switch to which other network components are connected and can use QoS mechanisms (Quality of Service) to prioritise its own UDP streams, which makes dropouts less likely. In contrast to other Sat>IP servers, I have seen no complaints from Fritz!Box Cable users about dropouts in this forum up to now.

 

[Retrofan]

With the TCP mode turned on I don't have dropouts anymore as with UDP mode earlier. Probably the problem was my Intel NIC in my Dell computer.

So, this is a nice addition.

 

Fall silently back to UDP is fine if the setting is set back from TCP to UDP.

Or indeed show an error dialog as well.

[Griga]

3 minutes ago, Retrofan said:

With the TCP mode turned on I don't have dropouts anymore as with UDP mode earlier.

 

So the Fritz!Box indeed supports this mode? I didn't expect that.

 

[Retrofan]

Probably! Tomorrow, I will check the debug logs as well.

[Retrofan]

23 hours ago, Griga said:

 

So the Fritz!Box indeed supports this mode? I didn't expect that.

 

 

See attached file. I don't see an error in the log, so all good I guess. 🙂

 

DVBViewer.log

Edited April 14 by Retrofan

[Griga]

Am 14.4.2025 um 18:16 schrieb Retrofan:

I don't see an error in the log

 

I can't either. So if the DVB -C RTSP Network Device 1 is correctly configured for TCP interleaved mode, your Fritzbox Cable supports it.

 

Nevertheless it's strange, because the few information that I can find in the web about this matter rather suggests that the Fritzbox does not support it. However, all these discussions took place two or more years ago...

 

[Retrofan]

Please also support this mode in the upcoming release of DVBViewer Media Server 3.3.1.5 (besides version 7.3.1.5 of DVBViewer Pro) to avoid discontinuities.

The mediaserver doesn't have the UDP/TCP mode right now under Hardware->Devices->Settings. (Configure Server with Admin Rights)

With DVBViewer Pro 7.3.1.5 I made a perfect recording without errors. However, when using DVBViewer Media Server this is another story.

Thank you!

Edited April 24 by Retrofan

[Griga]

vor 39 Minuten schrieb Retrofan:

Please also support this mode in the upcoming release of DVBViewer Media Server 3.3.1.5 (besides version 7.3.1.5 of DVBViewer Pro) to avoid discontinuities.

 

Of course the Media Server will support it, as Sat>IP Server and as Sat>IP Client. It is based on the same code. Maybe I can provide a test version, will be checked...

 

[Retrofan]

27 minutes ago, Griga said:

 

Maybe I can provide a test version, will be checked...

 

 

That would be great, thanks!

[Griga]

Am 24.4.2025 um 12:30 schrieb Retrofan:

That would be great, thanks!

 

Please check your personal messages.

[Retrofan]

Thanks @Griga, but I get this error. I changed mode to TCP and back to UDP. In both cases I get this error.

Is there a debug mode for DMS like DVBViewer Pro?

The new svcoptions.exe file is only 727.416 bytes, is that correct? The old one is 1.919.912 bytes.

I'm using the Basic version of DMS by the way.

 

Edited April 28 by Retrofan

[Griga]

vor 31 Minuten schrieb Retrofan:

I'm using the Basic version of DMS by the way.

 

That causes the error. The licence check fails. Test/Beta versions are only provided for owners of a full version licence. Sorry, you have to wait for the next official release.

 

vor 35 Minuten schrieb Retrofan:

The new svcoptions.exe file is only 727.416 bytes, is that correct? The old one is 1.919.912 bytes.

 

Whoops - the 3.3.1 release contains an uncompressed version of this file. Nobody noticed it up to now. But this doesn't affect the functionality.

 

[Retrofan]

Okay, I see @Griga, no problem, I will wait 🙂 When do you expect the next official release?

Maybe I will buy the full version someday.

What are the differences between Basic and full version?

Edited April 28 by Retrofan

[Retrofan]

On 4/13/2025 at 7:13 PM, Griga said:

 

So the Fritz!Box indeed supports this mode? I didn't expect that.

 

 

Not sure if it really does as Tvheadend doesn't work with this mode enabled. Don't know if that mode is exactly the same as in DVBViewer.

For now I also disabled C-states in the BIOS which seems better to avoid dropouts as much as possible in UDP mode and I'm using a 3db attenuator for DVB-C on my Fritzbox 6690 Cable. Otherwise the signal strength might be too strong.

Edited April 30 by Retrofan

[Retrofan]

Nah, I think the FB indeed doesn't work with TCP mode as when I start DVBViewer the next time with this setting, it always comes with the wizard to config the DMS which I already did. With UDP configured the wizard doesn't show up.

[Griga]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Retrofan:

I think the FB indeed doesn't work with TCP mode as when I start DVBViewer the next time with this setting, it always comes with the wizard to config the DMS which I already did.

 

The TCP setting and the wizard prompt are not related to each other. You are prompted to execute the Media Server Wizard if the DVBViewer Media Server is running and DVBViewer accesses hardware or network tuners directly that should only be accessed by the Media Server.

 

Shared hardware usage by DVBViewer and the Media Server demands that DVBViewer only uses the Media Server as TV/Radio source via RTSP network devices, so that the Media Server is the commander-in-chief concerning tuner allocation. Direct tuner access by DVBViewer may cause inefficient and conflicting  tuner usage, if the Media Server is also running, and should only be used for test purpose while the Media Server is stopped!

 

[Retrofan]

Okay, I see, that's a relief. 🙂

[Retrofan]

On 4/30/2025 at 6:02 PM, Retrofan said:

 

Not sure if it really does as Tvheadend doesn't work with this mode enabled. Don't know if that mode is exactly the same as in DVBViewer.

For now I also disabled C-states in the BIOS which seems better to avoid dropouts as much as possible in UDP mode and I'm using a 3db attenuator for DVB-C on my Fritzbox 6690 Cable. Otherwise the signal strength might be too strong.

 

To avoid discontinuities I also replaced the network adapter and I divided my network in a separated 2.4 and 5 GHz wifi network, which seems to be the trick.

[Retrofan]

On 4/13/2025 at 7:13 PM, Griga said:

 

So the Fritz!Box indeed supports this mode? I didn't expect that.

 

 

Yes, it looks like the AVM Fritz!Box 6690 Cable does support it. I succesfully tested minisatip 🙂

[Griga]

7 minutes ago, Retrofan said:

Yes, it looks like the AVM Fritz!Box 6690 Cable does support it. I succesfully tested minisatip 🙂

 

Here the result was that a Fritzbox 6660 doesn't.

[Retrofan]

23 hours ago, Griga said:

 

Here the result was that a Fritzbox 6660 doesn't.

 

Thanks for pointing me to this topic. Only difference with my approach is not to turn on TCP mode directly for Fritz!Box Cable, but assign a DVB-C tuner from Fritz!Box to minisatip first and then select minisatip in DVBViewer as SAT>IP device and then turn on TCP mode.

Maybe that does the trick? Until now I don't have dropouts anymore using my WiFi connection, but I will do more tests this week and then I will report it back here.

[Retrofan]

Yes! No more dropouts, so the Fritz!Box 6690 Cable indeed supports TCP mode. I'm using Fritz!OS 8.03. However, 1 DVB-C tuner can be used in this mode. I didn't have luck with more tuners, but this is not a problem for me, as I only had dropouts on my Windows PC with WiFi. All other devices with WiFi do work fine in UDP mode. And the Fritz!Box does optimize WiFi already for TV reception at default in this Fritz!OS version.

This topic can be closed 🙂

 

Edited June 4 by Retrofan

[Griga]

On 6/2/2025 at 8:04 PM, Retrofan said:

Thanks for pointing me to this topic.

 

I would like to check, if the "461 Unkown" message also appears in your DVBViewer.log, because it can be overlooked easily, but unfortunately the log is no more available.

 

[Retrofan]

11 hours ago, Griga said:

 

I would like to check, if the "461 Unkown" message also appears in your DVBViewer.log, because it can be overlooked easily, but unfortunately the log is no more available.

 

 

Here's a new log file. Interesting and as expected. 461 Unkown (must be "Unknown") is reported for Fritz!Box Cable tuner 2. However, when using minisatip, no error!

Maybe minisatip gets the job done in a different way.

DVBViewer.log