jouko999 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 (edited) Something has changed in YLE transmission - now DVBViewer Pro does not show the teletext subtitles at all after 3.1.2006. Teletext pages work normally and TSPlayer shows the subtitles, but DVBV Pro does not. There are some reports about the problem in Finnish DVB forums, see http://www.dvdplaza.fi/forums/showthread.php?t=42120&page=3 Edited January 4, 2006 by jouko999 Quote Link to comment
Guest Lars_MQ Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 3.1.2005. What kind of version is this? Quote Link to comment
emmel Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 (edited) Sorry about this continuous everlasting whining about subs... The problem is, that the teletext-subs of DVBViewerPro 3.2.6.80 have not worked with all Finnish channels after 3.1.2006 (probably due to some changes in teletext-stream). Recording of the teletext subs in ts-format is ok, and we can eventually verify their existence by demuxing the recorded ts-file. You can also watch the subs in "DVBViewer->Teletext", but watching them with "View->Show subtitles" does not work at the moment. Hard to say how the stream has changed exactly (or maybe it has not), I'm not an expert here. But they seem to send the subtitle page header line (packet number zero) in an completely different manner and order than before. Edited January 4, 2006 by emmel Quote Link to comment
jouko999 Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 3.1.2005. What kind of version is this? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry, my mistake, of course 3.1.2006. Quote Link to comment
hackbart Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 please there is no version from yesterday. If yle does no longer present teletext, scan the frequency again. The subtitles are working, but the problem you mention is caused by the fact that yle does not send the subtitle pids in the pmt the whole time. The video recorder usually starts a few minutes before the planned event starts and in this time the pmt is evaluated. If there is no subtitle pid inside it is not added. I'm aware of this, but how can i solve such a problem without forcing the user to add the pids by hand Christian Quote Link to comment
emmel Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 (edited) The question was about teletext subtitles. Teletext subs still exist in parallel to dvb-subs. [edit] If I record a program in ts-format with "teletext" included, and start replaying the ts-file with View->Show (teletext)subtitles activated, the program (3.2.6.80) crashes: CPU goes to 100% and the program stops responding. This did not happen before yesterday. Older ts-recordings (before 3.1.2006) are ok, DVBViewer replays them correctly. Edited January 4, 2006 by emmel Quote Link to comment
jouko999 Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 please there is no version from yesterday. If yle does no longer present teletext, scan the frequency again. The subtitles are working, but the problem you mention is caused by the fact that yle does not send the subtitle pids in the pmt the whole time. The video recorder usually starts a few minutes before the planned event starts and in this time the pmt is evaluated. If there is no subtitle pid inside it is not added. I'm aware of this, but how can i solve such a problem without forcing the user to add the pids by hand Christian <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not talking about version date, there has been some change in the teletext transmission yesterday 3.Jan.2006, and the problem is the same with both last versions of DVBV Pro. For some reason the teletext subtitles don't come visible at all anymore. All teletext pages are shown properly in a teletext window, both in live transmission and in a recording. Also TSPlayer shows the subtitles properly. I guess it is better to wait a few days before doing anything, this may be YLE's faulty operation - maybe there is some newbie at work while the old guys are in Bahamas on Xmas holiday. To get YLE's DVB subtitles recorded properly the software should check the PMT more often also during the recording, and add the necessary PIDs. This is how most set-top boxes do it, sometimes a few text lines are lost from the beginning but it works anyway. I have used the 'ghost channel' system and everything has worked fine until yesterday. It was a nice idea to add the subpages.xml function for teletext subtitles, maybe in next version the correct subtitle page number will be saved in the recording as well? This was more a notification to other Finnish users than a bug report. Warm greetings to whole development team, and happy, successful year 2006 to everybody! Jouko, Savo, Finland Quote Link to comment
emmel Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Hello, I just did some modest checking, and found out that in the "new" problematic teletext-stream of yle there is the following difference with respect to the "old" stream: New stream (not working with dvbv currently): Teletext page header (ETSI EN 300 706 v.1.2.1, section 9.3.1) has sub-page code S1=5 and S2=S2=S3=0. Old stream (works well with dvbv): S1=S2=S3=S4=0. To be more specific, byte 6 of the subtitle page header has changed from value 0xa8 to 0xce. Difficult to find any other differences in the streams. I also checked the page headers of another pay-tv channel that uses txt-subs, and noticed that also they have S1=S2=S3=S4=0. Their txt-subs work fine with DVBViewer. Do you think that this change in the header data could explain our missing txt-subs? BR Quote Link to comment
hackbart Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 could you provide some smaller sample which crashs? I can not really imagine that there is something wrong inside the teletext which forces the application to crash. Christian Quote Link to comment
Mikko-vaari Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 could you provide some smaller sample which crashs? I can not really imagine that there is something wrong inside the teletext which forces the application to crash. Christian <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have a 140MB ts-file. Where can I send it? Quote Link to comment
hackbart Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 if you drop me a mail i can send you an test version, plus a link to upload the file Christian Quote Link to comment
Derrick Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 well, I can´t watch the encrypted channnels (conax) but I can see the descriptors of the corresponding ttx and dvb_sub elementary streams. I can't see anything special that could cause problems. The ttx subtitles are shown correctly either in the Pro and the GE (selecting the page in ttx). Pro, YLE TV2 Stream Type: 0x06 Teletext/VBI PID 578 (0x0242) Descriptor: Teletext Descriptor Language: fin Type: Initial Teletext page Magazine: 0x01 Page: 0x00 Language: fin Type: Teletext subtitle page Magazine: 0x04 Page: 0x52 Language: swe Type: Teletext subtitle page Magazine: 0x04 Page: 0x56 Quote Link to comment
emmel Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 (edited) The teletext module of DVBViewerPro (DVBViewer->Teletext...) in fact shows the subs correctly. It is the osd selection View->Show subtitles that does not work. Both s and t the same thing. Check Discovery (1W, 11229H, 24500) for example. Page 694. The subs are unencrypted and shown correctly in both ways - with the txt-module as well as on the screen. Then rechech the channel you already did (or some of the yle channels - probably some of them is sending subs): no subs on the screen while the txt-module works. Confusing... [edit] Two samples: non-working and working, both from 1W. Edited January 5, 2006 by emmel Quote Link to comment
hackbart Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Luckily i got one newer dvb-t sample and i will check it out in the next minutes. I keep you informed, but anyhow it is quite a weird problem since the teletext window uses the same class to receive the data as the subtitle engine. Christian Quote Link to comment
hackbart Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Hmm, at least i figured out one strange problem with the subs. Usually you have subtitle pages and subpages. Normally the subtitles are delivered by subpage = 0. In the yle case it flips from subpage 0 to 5. It should work fine in the next DVBViewer version Christian Quote Link to comment
emmel Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Hmm, at least i figured out one strange problem with the subs. Usually you have subtitle pages and subpages. Normally the subtitles are delivered by subpage = 0. In the yle case it flips from subpage 0 to 5.It should work fine in the next DVBViewer version Christian <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Krhhmm... What did I ask in mess #8 above? Can I have a cookie now? Thank you really much, all of you! Regards, emmel Quote Link to comment
Derrick Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 The teletext module of DVBViewerPro (DVBViewer->Teletext...) in fact shows the subs correctly. It is the osd selection View->Show subtitles that does not work. Both s and t the same thing. Check Discovery (1W, 11229H, 24500) for example. Page 694. The subs are unencrypted and shown correctly in both ways - with the txt-module as well as on the screen. Then rechech the channel you already did (or some of the yle channels - probably some of them is sending subs): no subs on the screen while the txt-module works. Confusing... [edit] Two samples: non-working and working, both from 1W. This thread is a mess @emmel, you are only referring to ttx subtiles, are you? On 11229H there are no dvb_subtitles. Discovery is a special case.. ..this one is working correctly with ttx_subs in the Pro and GE. Program Number: 406 Discovery Descriptor: CA Descriptor CA System ID: 2816 (0x0b00) Conax CA PID 100 (0x0064) Stream Type: 0x02 MPEG-2 Video PID 900 (0x0384) Stream Type: 0x04 MPEG-2 Audio PID 901 (0x0385) Descriptor: ISO639 Language Descriptor Language: eng Audio type: undefined Stream Type: 0x06 Teletext/VBI PID 301 (0x012d) Descriptor: Teletext Descriptor Language: eng Type: Initial Teletext page Magazine: 0x01 Page: 0x00 Language: swe Type: Teletext subtitle page Magazine: 0x06 Page: 0x91 Language: nor Type: Teletext subtitle page Magazine: 0x06 Page: 0x92 Language: dan Type: Teletext subtitle page Magazine: 0x06 Page: 0x93 Language: fin Type: Teletext subtitle page Magazine: 0x06 Page: 0x94 Stream Type: 0xc0 User Private PID 848 (0x0350) Descriptor: User Private Descriptor: 0xc6 00 00 05 01 ff ..... Descriptor: User Private Descriptor: 0xc2 53 43 41 5f 5f 43 48 4c 45 50 47 5f 4c 4f 41 44 SCA__CHLEPG_LOAD 53 43 41 5f 45 50 47 32 53 43 41 5f 45 50 47 31 SCA_EPG2SCA_EPG1 Stream Type: 0x0b ISO/IEC 13818-6 type B PID 2299 (0x08fb) Descriptor: Stream Indentifier Descriptor 02 . These Discovery channels (S,D) don't show any subs in the GE (probably cos there aren't any ) but it will crash the Pro when trying to open Show Subtitles. Program Number: 409 Discovery (S) Descriptor: CA Descriptor CA System ID: 2816 (0x0b00) Conax CA PID 105 (0x0069) Stream Type: 0x02 MPEG-2 Video PID 800 (0x0320) Stream Type: 0x04 MPEG-2 Audio PID 801 (0x0321) Descriptor: ISO639 Language Descriptor Language: eng Audio type: undefined Stream Type: 0x06 Teletext/VBI PID 303 (0x012f) Descriptor: Teletext Descriptor Language: eng Type: Initial Teletext page Magazine: 0x01 Page: 0x00 Language: swe Type: Teletext subtitle page Magazine: 0x06 Page: 0x91 Stream Type: 0xc0 User Private PID 848 (0x0350) Descriptor: User Private Descriptor: 0xc6 00 00 05 01 ff ..... Descriptor: User Private Descriptor: 0xc2 53 43 41 5f 5f 43 48 4c 45 50 47 5f 4c 4f 41 44 SCA__CHLEPG_LOAD 53 43 41 5f 45 50 47 32 53 43 41 5f 45 50 47 31 SCA_EPG2SCA_EPG1 Stream Type: 0x0b ISO/IEC 13818-6 type B PID 2299 (0x08fb) Descriptor: Stream Indentifier Descriptor 02 . -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Program Number: 412 Discovery (D) Descriptor: CA Descriptor CA System ID: 2816 (0x0b00) Conax CA PID 106 (0x006a) Stream Type: 0x02 MPEG-2 Video PID 1200 (0x04b0) Stream Type: 0x04 MPEG-2 Audio PID 1201 (0x04b1) Descriptor: ISO639 Language Descriptor Language: eng Audio type: undefined Stream Type: 0x06 Teletext/VBI PID 305 (0x0131) Descriptor: Teletext Descriptor Language: eng Type: Initial Teletext page Magazine: 0x01 Page: 0x00 Language: dan Type: Teletext subtitle page Magazine: 0x06 Page: 0x93 Stream Type: 0xc0 User Private PID 848 (0x0350) Descriptor: User Private Descriptor: 0xc6 00 00 05 01 ff ..... Descriptor: User Private Descriptor: 0xc2 53 43 41 5f 5f 43 48 4c 45 50 47 5f 4c 4f 41 44 SCA__CHLEPG_LOAD 53 43 41 5f 45 50 47 32 53 43 41 5f 45 50 47 31 SCA_EPG2SCA_EPG1 Stream Type: 0x0b ISO/IEC 13818-6 type B PID 2299 (0x08fb) Descriptor: Stream Indentifier Descriptor 02 . Quote Link to comment
Derrick Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 btw. the latter case resembles ttx_subs on BBC. PRO crashes but GE works ok Quote Link to comment
emmel Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 This thread is a mess Agreed @emmel, you are only referring to ttx subtiles, are you? Yes. This thread is about txt-subs. Confusing indeed, as there are so many threads about dvb-subs... Problems in all possible systems, where I live These Discovery channels (S,D) don't show any subs in the GE (probably cos there aren't any ) but it will crash the Pro when trying to open Show Subtitles. Either they provide audio, or subs, as translation. Not both. In this case it was about subs. Anyways, thanks for the effort. I really appreciate it. I think this sub thing is getting more or less frustrating to everyone... I guess there are also more important things to do for the developers. Thanks for the patience, Derrick and Christian, emmel Quote Link to comment
Guest Lars_MQ Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I guess there are also more important things to do for the developers. Well my first impulse is to agree to this (I don't use/need subtitles, I only use Astra and if in the betatests people with the possibility to detect problems don't care and speak up, why should I?), but because I should behave politically correct, I of course say, christian will fix it. Quote Link to comment
emmel Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I uderstand you perfectly. I really appreciate all the help I have received from all of you in the past. Hard to find a team as effective and open to suggestions and problems as you have. emmel Quote Link to comment
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