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vladojko

EVR Support in DVBViewer Pro

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CiNcH

Would be cool to have a sample. I have no subscription for that channel but would like to see whether the Italian Stallion really maxes out current CPU's which I doubt.

 

Probably you want to give the following sample a try:

 

http://x264.nl/h.264.samples/force.php?fil...prosieben.hd.ts

 

Was captured from a german television channel and is about 8 Mbps.

 

This one gives me 20-30% at exactly 2 GHz (think your CPU will run at 1.6 GHz if SpeedStep clocks it down, so usage will probably be a bit higher).

Edited by CiNcH

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CiNcH

*hnz*, how do you watch that channel with GE? It does not even support CI. Is it a recording?

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Griga

We have just run some tests, and unfortunately it seems to be very difficult to send the OSD through a second input pin to the EVR, as it is required for the DVBViewer Pro OSD.

 

The second pin simply doesn't connect to an additional source, that is supposed to be mixed with the first stream. Reports about this issue that I've found in the web suggest that it depends on the DXVA capabilities of the graphics card driver. If you want to read some of that stuff:

 

http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost....28&SiteID=1

 

DVBViewer GE doesn't use a DirectShow OSD source filter, but sends the OSD bitmaps directly to the mixer unit. However, this method is quite limited and won't be acceptable for DVBViewer Pro, I guess. ;)

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morph
*hnz*, how do you watch that channel with GE? It does not even support CI. Is it a recording?

 

[Deleted read the forum rules!]

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arfster
Probably you want to give the following sample a try:

 

http://x264.nl/h.264.samples/force.php?fil...prosieben.hd.ts

 

With a 1.93ghz e4300 in VMR9, that clip is measured at 30% in perfmon. That's the PDvD 7.3 decoder in software mode. With EVR and 8500GT acceleration, it's basically nonexistent, maybe 2% or so (clip is too short to tell!).

 

By comparison, BBC HD 16mbit is about 47%. The PDVD decoder has improved a lot from a few versions back - it now matches CoreAVC, more or less. When I was struggling to get the football last summer (mrrrrm, 20mbit h264 World Cup), it was maxxing out both cores of an equivalent machine.

 

Of course, all the above are 25fps film material. Video material is a lot harder, and I think only the 8xxx cards can accelerate it properly too.

Edited by arfster

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arfster

Blah - been posting on doom9 with a few knowledgeable folks, and it seems that DXVA1/VMR9 direcsthow support for h264 acceleration was never planned, and likely never will be. Apparently PowerDVD in XP uses custom hooks for h264 acceleration rather than Directshow, and it's that route again they'll use with the 8500/8600.

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hackbart

I was testing (as griga said) the EVR Renderer for a few times, but i stumbled over a couple of problems. Either its a bug, or its a limitation that we can not render an RGBA32 Stream on the second pin. Anyway maybe i will add an EVR Allocator Output, once we ported the Display to Direct3D. It is quite a pain in the as to find useful samples for EVR in Directshow - especially since Microsoft always has excellent samples and explanations.

 

Christian

PS: On my tests i honestly did now saw any speed improvements while using the EVR.

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boborg
PS: On my tests i honestly did now saw any speed improvements while using the EVR.

 

Have you tested with a 8500 or 8600 Nvidia? Only these will offer improvements with EVR I belive.

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Moses

It's not that EVR would speed things up or do anything better than the other renderers... it's the only way at the moment to access DVXA2 which is supportet by the Nvidia 8500/8600 Graphicsboards and enables full H.264 decoding in hardware... I believe, that this is the only current hardware that will benefit from it... ATI will release similar hardware, soon.. it's not really clear how their hardware decoding will be addressed...

Maybe things for the nividia cards will change, too, when the XP driver is released... (at the moment it works only in Vista).

 

So it shouldn't be a high priority thing, these people with their brand new boards can wait a month or two and we'll see if there isn't another way towards DVXA2, PureVideo2, Unified Video Renderer (or whatever they call it).

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Future777
On my tests i honestly did now saw any speed improvements while using the EVR

 

You need the 8500 or 8600 series, as Moses says in his posting.

With the latest PowerDVD 7.3 filters, my CPU goes down to 2% (!) when playing a 20MBIT H264 Stream.

Note: My CPU is only P4 3.2 Ghz! EVR+DXVA2+Nvidia 8500/8600 series is the real deal for silent HTPC system!

 

On top of that, the picture quality of 8500/8600 series hardware accelerated movies is fantastic!

I have used Quality settings + Edge enhancement in the driver software -> ;) -> :blush:

 

cheers

Future

Edited by Future777

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Dr. Cain
By the way, I found new Ati 2xxx graphic card H.264, VC-1 etc testing result with compearing the nVidia's 8500 and 8600 series.

http://www.hardspell.com/english/doc/showc...&pageid=648

Regards.

 

Do these also require EVR for h.264 acceleration, or can they accelerate h.264 with VMR9 or overlay?

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Moses

there was one person arround here, that said, in one test, one could identify the OS as Windows XP...

Maybe one should wait and see, until these boards are oficialy released? :bye:

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arfster

Good news: apparently the 165.xx beta drivers allow acceleration with VMR9 in XP (not overlay though).

 

Hopefully Vista will get similar drivers, but possibly not with all the DXVA2 complications.

Edited by arfster

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uglyrooster

Are you talking about NVidia 165.xx drivers? If so, please post a link.

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CiNcH

Yes it works. Simply google for '165.01 XP'. I have also downloaded all recent patches for PowerDVD (version is now 7.3.2911). 1% CPU usage on Astra HD @ 14.1 mbps with Overlay Mixer and 5% with VMR9 (+perfect deinterlacing).

Edited by CiNcH

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uglyrooster

Great! Is it really true that this driver exists since April for XP (and I have not found them!)?

 

90% of HDTV-problems are solved with this driver.

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CiNcH
Great! Is it really true that this driver exists since April for XP (and I have not found them!)?

Welcome to nVIDIA's driver jungle :bye: .

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boborg

Great news. Will test right away :)

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boborg

How stable is 165.01 for you guys? I have experienced Blue Screens of Death or system freezes with this driver. Several times happened when exiting DVBViewer with a H.264 channel playing.

Edited by boborg

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CiNcH

No problems here. Have been using it for 2 days now.

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chrispazz
No problems here. Have been using it for 2 days now.

 

Hi! Are you saying that 165.01 add h.264 hardware acceleration of 8500GT also to XP and VMR (like Vista with EVR)?

 

Christian

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boborg
Hi! Are you saying that 165.01 add h.264 hardware acceleration of 8500GT also to XP and VMR (like Vista with EVR)?

 

Christian

 

Yes but not very stable for many. CiNcH seems to be lucky. I and many others at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....ge=19&pp=30 are reporting crashes.

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ricabullah
Yes but not very stable for many. CiNcH seems to be lucky.

 

Me too; another lucky!

 

After advised by CiNcH, i tried with a 8600GTS, for four days i haven't seen any crash. CPU runs at %4-6 level.

 

I think beta BDA drivers create the problem. (Even non-beta is not so good)

 

I advise, stay with alfa drivers for XP32.

Edited by ricabullah

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boborg

BDA Version 4.4.10.18 or 5.0.0.2 does not matter to me still blue screen crashes (nv4_disp.dll page fault ) with H.264 channels. It happens not only with DVBViewer but also H.264 video playback in general so it's definately a Nvidia driver problem for me not related to Technotrend. Maybe 8500 GT is not as well supported yet as 86000GTS in these beta Nvidia drivers.

 

Just to update after I did some more testing. A complete WinXP reinstall and installation of 165.01 XP beta drivers, TT4.4.10.18 drivers and, Cyberlink 7.3 (2911) and Audio drivers for my Gigabyte 965P-DS3 + AC3filter gives same results. PC locks up on H.264. So I'll wait for non beta drivers for Purevideo HD support or switch to Ati once the new ones come out.

Edited by boborg

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arfster

Just to add to the use for EVR: it seems certain DVB channels confuse the Nvidia decoder with the 8500/8600, leading to constant video/film flickering and an unwatchable picture - perhaps a problem with flag reading. The 2911 Powerdvd decoder has no flag problem, deinterlaces sharp edges with much sharper detail ........... but it needs EVR or you get no picture most of the time (I'm using Vista, but another poster found the same problem in XP was solved by using EVR).

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Cirion
Well to be honest we do not plan to use evr since our intention is to switch to d3d hopefully more sooner than later. A technical demo can be found in the beta section.

 

Christian

 

Where can I find this techical demo? Do you have a name? It's not in the members beta section...

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jimmyg
To be honest i doubt that this performance gap is just caused by EVR. I made a lot of tests in the past and we (Lars and I) honestly dont think to integrate EVR. Especially since it causes more work than it did in the GE. Especially since we render the OSD into a second pin. Anyway i think it is better to keep focus on the work I did in the last weeks: The D3D Solution (http://www.DVBViewer.info/forum/index.php?showtopic=17746&st=45&gopid=135844entry135844).

Concening to the speed issue: You have to make sure that both applications are using the same codec - since the differences are huge.

 

Christian

 

This fellow hackbart is a stubborn fellow. (and a bit dense i think) . He actually thinks that EVR speeds up the video . EVR is necessary in Vista to implemnt full G84 /V2 h.264 video acceleration. using compliant G84 cards such as the gigabyte 8500 GT. when the encoding is being carried out on the graphics card. main CpU processor loads drop to silly levels such as 1 or 2%. come on hackbart I paid good money for DVBViewer Pro. Get your act together and stop banging on about d3d. I know you've done some research in this area but you are just ignoring the truth and not listening to customer needs.

Nvidia and the graphics industry has done a little bit more informed research than you have!

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Lars_MQ

Christian gave his statement, I agree, no need for further discussion or stupid comments. thread closed.

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