DVB-S card model VS picture quality

[embrion]

Hi,

 

Currently I have SkyStar 2 DVB-S card and I see that picture quality via HDMI is much lower than at cheap-o Ferguson stand alone DVB tuner via EURO SCART. On the other hand I see people does watch SAT TV at HTPCs and no one complain.

Does picture quality depend on DVB-S card model or it is generally crappy or there are some magic codecs/divers which will make picture look a lot better? Same codecs give me nice quality when watching XVid for example so I don't think so it is SO dependent on filters settings.

[RichardWhite]

Unless you have a DVB card with video out, the video quality has got nothing to do with the DVB card, unless you're getting actual picture break-up.

 

Now, there are many ways to mess up video quality on an HTPC, though. You could be using the wrong deinterlacing method, a crappy codec, the wrong refresh rate, etc, etc, or it could even be as simple as the fact that a pure digital source like this really highlights how crap Standard Definition DVB pictures generally are.

 

Many people would argue that scart from a set top box on an analog display (CRT) actually looks better than HDMI on a TFT or plasma, particularly if they're quite big. Many XVID or X264 videos downloaded from the web certainly look better than your average SD DVB broadcast. Some channels/broadcasters are better than others as well.

 

Perhaps if you tell us a bit more about your settings, someone can give you some pointers about where improvements can be made.

[embrion]

Unless you have a DVB card with video out, the video quality has got nothing to do with the DVB card, unless you're getting actual picture break-up.

 

Now, there are many ways to mess up video quality on an HTPC, though. You could be using the wrong deinterlacing method, a crappy codec, the wrong refresh rate, etc, etc, or it could even be as simple as the fact that a pure digital source like this really highlights how crap Standard Definition DVB pictures generally are.

 

Many people would argue that scart from a set top box on an analog display (CRT) actually looks better than HDMI on a TFT or plasma, particularly if they're quite big. Many XVID or X264 videos downloaded from the web certainly look better than your average SD DVB broadcast. Some channels/broadcasters are better than others as well.

 

Perhaps if you tell us a bit more about your settings, someone can give you some pointers about where improvements can be made.

 

Some people say DVB card does matter and they see the difference, some other that it doesn't. Logically and as an engineer I'd stick to the second group.

 

About filters, codecs, etc:

I've used ffdshow, Cyberlink and Elcard codecs so all top notch. Overly Mixer used as it was recommended...well, I tested also at VMR9.

Not wrong refresh, my TV native withous scaling + I'd notice that picture sucks at everything, not only DVB. Same about deinterlacing I guess.

So, if I use the same hardware, connection and codecs and XVID and HD X264 looks nice and DVB-S sucks, than I think that's not the reason.

 

About poor SD DVB broadcast:

I have 32" LCD TV, which is generally very good at making low quality SD look nice.

HTPC is connected via HDMI via ATI HD 2600XT so best possible connection. I repeat: XVID, X264 SD and HD look good, DVB-S looks worse than setup in the line below.

Cheap DVB-S set top box tuner is connected via EURO SCART so almost worst possible connection. DVB-S looks NOTICEABLY BETTER.

[RichardWhite]

Some people say DVB card does matter and they see the difference, some other that it doesn't. Logically and as an engineer I'd stick to the second group.

In essence, a DVB card just "downloads" data and passes it to the PC for processing and output. Suggesting that it has an effect on quality is like saying an XVID looks better or worse depending on which modem/router it was downloaded with.

 

About poor SD DVB broadcast:

I have 32" LCD TV, which is generally very good at making low quality SD look nice.

HTPC is connected via HDMI via ATI HD 2600XT so best possible connection. I repeat: XVID, X264 SD and HD look good, DVB-S looks worse than setup in the line below.

Cheap DVB-S set top box tuner is connected via EURO SCART so almost worst possible connection. DVB-S looks NOTICEABLY BETTER.

Interesting. How does DVB HD look? Have you tried recording something and playing it back in a different app, to see if that makes any difference? I know quality is kind of a vague term, but what kind of difference do you see from the HTPC to the set-top box? Blurring? Pixellation? Motion issues?

[embrion]

In essence, a DVB card just "downloads" data and passes it to the PC for processing and output. Suggesting that it has an effect on quality is like saying an XVID looks better or worse depending on which modem/router it was downloaded with.

Yeah, I thought so.

 

Interesting. How does DVB HD look? Have you tried recording something and playing it back in a different app, to see if that makes any difference? I know quality is kind of a vague term, but what kind of difference do you see from the HTPC to the set-top box? Blurring? Pixellation? Motion issues?

Well, I can't tell much about DVB HD, I have only DVB-S(1) card and no HD channels in my subscription.

I'll try the recording test method.

About quality, not more pixellation than at STB, but most visible difference is blur/little washed colors/less contrast. Something like that. Also, people seem to move less snappy. For example, during talkshows someone is sitting, suddenly he moves his head in one quick move. At STB it is really one quick move, at HTPC it's somehow less rapid, less natural.

[RichardWhite]

About quality, not more pixellation than at STB, but most visible difference is blur/little washed colors/less contrast. Something like that. Also, people seem to move less snappy. For example, during talkshows someone is sitting, suddenly he moves his head in one quick move. At STB it is really one quick move, at HTPC it's somehow less rapid, less natural.

Hmm, that sounds a bit odd. Almost like you're getting dropped frames. You might want to check the DVB source to see if you're getting any discontinueties or errors. Try going to View->Filters->DVB Source while watching a channel and see what it says in there.

 

You might also want to check your deinterlace settings. Try and see if you have a Bob option. This generally helps with movement. Far too often people use one of the blend methods, which by its very nature introduces blurring. Occasionally, you can also get conflicts with how some TV sets deal with source material that has already been processed. A friend of mine had a crappy set, which got quite confused with anything other than an interlaced source and applied the wrong sort of processing and deinterlacing itself.

[embrion]

No no, it's not like getting dropped frames. I't like when You turn on this pseudo 100Hz in modern LCDs or other smoothing effect, it's just a little unnatural smooth movement, no dropped frames. It's too smooth, not jerky.

Also, the movement is not a big deal, it's just general feeling that picture is worse and I think washed colors are the most noticeable.

 

You mean to check those settings in DVBViewer or video card panel? I don't think this is DVBViewer problem alone as I tested a few other programs and all of them gave me the same, worse quality effect. I'd even say DVBViewer was slightly better than others.

Edited July 28, 2009 by embrion

[RichardWhite]

You mean to check those settings in DVBViewer or video card panel? I don't think this is DVBViewer problem alone as I tested a few other programs and all of them gave me the same, worse quality effect. I'd even say DVBViewer was slightly better than others.

Most apps will use a standard blend mode as default, which is far from ideal. Try different settings in DVBViewer. Personally, I would recommend Bob, also called Display Both Fields. And, if you can, make sure the TV isn't using some additional processing on top of the already deinterlaced input, which could cause some weird problems. In fact, you might even want to try to just output an interlaced image and let the TV do all the processing, which is essentially what it's doing with your set-top input.

[johnoo]

Hi,

 

Currently I have SkyStar 2 DVB-S card and I see that picture quality via HDMI is much lower than at cheap-o Ferguson stand alone DVB tuner via EURO SCART. On the other hand I see people does watch SAT TV at HTPCs and no one complain.

Does picture quality depend on DVB-S card model or it is generally crappy or there are some magic codecs/divers which will make picture look a lot better? Same codecs give me nice quality when watching XVid for example so I don't think so it is SO dependent on filters settings.

I'm using a ati 4670 connected by only a hdmi lead to a 42 inch hdtv,the sound also coming though the hdmi lead.the ati card set the desktop to 1920x1080 and theres extra options in the settings for 25/30/50 or 60hz,also full rgb,partial etc this is still new to me so I'm still finding what works best.anyway using a WinTV-NOVA-HD-S2 and freesat in the uk BBCHD looks fantastic and has no motion issues after playing back recordings in either DVBViewer or vlc player,the sd programs also look better than on my stb.Just too put my opinion about does the type of card matter,well I have a floppydtv s2(for use with my sky sub) a nova hd s2 and a cheap 2ndhand compro videomate s350 from ebay(£15) ,and I swear there is no difference between the other two cards and the s350 for watching /recording HD or SD.the s350 is in a windows 7 pc with no other codecs except the microsoft ones that came with 7 and the ac3 filter,plus it works faultless in wmc,this card is perfect for anyone who wants a cheap second card or way into satellite on pc,just dump the software and use DVBViewer,use windows 7 and the codecs are all there except the ac3 filter.