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Derrick

Transedit doesn't show PMT_PIDs

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Derrick

On Intelsat 907, 27,5W (11495H, DVB-S2, QPSK,44100, 9/10) there is a BBC sat_backup for terrestrial transmission. Except for a couple of SI tables (PAT, NIT, SDT, EIT,TOT) all streams are scrambled (probably BISS). Also the PMTs are scrambled but the corresponding pids are in written in the PAT. Alas transedit won't show these pids.

 

 

00 -> table_id: program_association_section
B0A1 -> section length 161 -> Bytes
1000 -> transport_stream_id
C9 -> reserved (2 Bits): 03 -> version_number (5 Bits): 04 -> current_next_indicator (1 Bit): 01
00 -> section_number
00 -> last_section_number
0000 -> program number
0010 -> network_PID
0003 -> program number
0021 -> program_map_PID
0032 -> program number
0032 -> program_map_PID
1044 -> program number
0064 -> program_map_PID
107C -> program number
1004 -> program_map_PID
107D -> program number
13EC -> program_map_PID
107E -> program number
0C1C -> program_map_PID
10BF -> program number
00C8 -> program_map_PID
10C0 -> program number
012C -> program_map_PID
1100 -> program number
01F4 -> program_map_PID
1140 -> program number
0A8C -> program_map_PID
11C0 -> program number
0190 -> program_map_PID
1200 -> program number
02BC -> program_map_PID
1240 -> program number
0320 -> program_map_PID
1280 -> program number
0258 -> program_map_PID
1600 -> program number
0578 -> program_map_PID
1640 -> program number
05DC -> program_map_PID
1680 -> program number
0640 -> program_map_PID
16C0 -> program number
06A4 -> program_map_PID
1700 -> program number
0708 -> program_map_PID
1740 -> program number
076C -> program_map_PID
1780 -> program number
07D0 -> program_map_PID
183C -> program number
08FC -> program_map_PID
187C -> program number
0960 -> program_map_PID
18BD -> program number
09C4 -> program_map_PID
18FD -> program number
0A28 -> program_map_PID
193E -> program number
0834 -> program_map_PID
197E -> program number
0898 -> program_map_PID
1A40 -> program number
03E8 -> program_map_PID
1A80 -> program number
044C -> program_map_PID
1AC0 -> program number
04B0 -> program_map_PID
1B00 -> program number
0514 -> program_map_PID
1C00 -> program number
0384 -> program_map_PID
4440 -> program number
17D4 -> program_map_PID
44C8 -> program number
1838 -> program_map_PID
4500 -> program number
189C -> program_map_PID
4580 -> program number
1900 -> program_map_PID
45C0 -> program number
1964 -> program_map_PID

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Griga

A sample containing the SI tables would enable me to have a closer look at it.

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Derrick

here you are..

 

..and what tsreader makes from a transedit dump ;)

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Griga

Including PMTs! :rolleyes:

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Derrick

Including PMTs! :rolleyes:

 

 

You can't possibly read a scrambled PMT :lol: (see 1st post and screenshot)

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Griga

I can read everything in the hex viewer.

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Derrick

I can read everything in the hex viewer.

 

..if you insist. Here's the PMT of BBC ONE. But all you'll see is pusi=1 and tsc=2. The payload is fully encrypted.

 

The question was not to identify the elementary streams but the PMTs as such.

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Griga

What I need is a sample with SI tables including scrambled PMTs as a test case for the internal PMT handling of the TransEdit Analyzer.

 

So try again... or forget it. Is it so hard to get that point? :rolleyes:

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Derrick

Parsing the PAT will do. You could add any ts_packet filled with random payload data as PMT carrying the corresponding PID from the PAT.

 

..but here's the original mix from this mux :D

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Griga

The TransEdit Analyzer didn't consider a missing or unreadable PMT, or with other words, the PMT node was added after reading the PMT successfully. Easy to change, however. This looks better now:

Zwischenablage02.png

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EnoSat

same situation as 16 East 11638 V & 11658 V - scrambled PMT

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rys

I would like to return to the topic...

As I have been searching "strange" transporders in orbit for some time, I must admit that in that case DVBViewer did not meet my expectations. DVBViewer is not able to scan package.

In this "combo" transedit-DVBViewer transedit seems to be better part of application. It's not any problem to scan via transedit all package with right names of particular channels. But automatic updating channels list with BBC package from transedit to DVBViewer is the only "empty" operation for DVBViewer. Updating channels cannot be tuned in DVBViewer in any way. DVBViewer is not able to lock channels.

It's strange because any of other applications like: altdvb, dvbdream can easily scan and lock all package. I'm ignoring fact that channels are locked as "data" and all package is scrambled to prevent from unauthorized view.

Any useful information would be appreciated.

Regards, rys

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Derrick

you have to be more specific

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rys

you have to be more specific

Hi Derrick

here you are...

1. altdvb or dvbdream scans all package easily saving each channel as data - of course knowing particular pids for any channel (i.e. pcr / v-pid / a-pid) channel saved as "data" can be easily converted to "scrambled video".

2. during scanning via DVBViewer, signal of broadcasting is present (green bars of PMT etc.are illuminated) but "0" channels are found as a result of scanning

3. transedit scans all package saving names of particular channels, but after automatic transfer of channels (using transedit's update channels list button) to DVBViewer channel list, all transfered channels are "dead" for DVBViewer - DVBViewer is not able to lock signal on any of these transfered channels.

Hope it will help...

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Derrick

..no, doesn't help very much. When I export channels from transedit to DVBViewer they'll show up and and lock. Do you have an example? Maybe the scan was perfomed with a different device which will lock on carriers with wrong parameters in your transponder list. If a different device that needs correct parameters is assigned to DVBViewer, of course nothing will happen. The user is responsible for correct settings ;)

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Derrick

Ok, you are referring to the scrambled PMTs. But what can you possible gain with these empty channels? There is no known PID from any elementary stream and DVBViewer can't read the PMT.

 

At least transedit now shows the PMTs :D

 

/edit

 

maybe you've done exactly what I have written above ;)

 

Here it shows a lock. Take another device and don't use the recording service..

 

..works with RS as well

 

25.11.11 18:08:38.640 TUCCommandClient Set Tuner
Tunertype: 1, Frequency: 11495, Symbolrate: 44100, LNB: 9750, Selection: 0, Polarity: 1, DiseqC: 6, FEC: 9, AudioPID: 0, VideoPID: 0, PMT: 4100, SID: 4220, SatModulation: 141, DiseqCValue: 0, NID: 1, Flags: 24
25.11.11 18:08:39.250 TBDATurbosight.Opendevice bvTurbosight
25.11.11 18:08:39.250 TUCCommandClient Allocate Prof 7500 DVBS Tuner (6)
25.11.11 18:08:39.250 TUCCommandClient got Hardware
25.11.11 18:08:39.703 TBDACITBSModule CI Base SetTuner Entering
25.11.11 18:08:39.703 TBDACITBSModule CI Base SetTuner Leaving
25.11.11 18:08:39.703 TDVBHardware.SetTuner Set Plugins
25.11.11 18:08:39.703 TDVBHardware.SetTuner Set Plugins done
25.11.11 18:08:39.703 TUCCommandClient Set the tuner

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rys

Ok, you are referring to the scrambled PMTs. But what can you possible gain with these empty channels? There is no known PID from any elementary stream and DVBViewer can't read the PMT.

 

At least transedit now shows the PMTs :D

Derrick

if I understood you correctly...

if pids are known and manually written ( using channel editor) the signal of particular channel will be displayed on DVBViewer's signal status bar (i.e. will be illuminated on green) ?

PS

I used all possible combinations with pids showed by transedit for BBC One and no-one was successful.

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Derrick

no, apparently you don't understand correctly ;)

 

Do you see any pids in my screenshot except the pmt_pid which was read from the pat? Mabe your assigned device has bandwidth problems. Make sure that the DVBViewer uses the same device that was used by transedit for the analysis and the scan.

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rys

I had asked before you edited your post - mow it's all clear lookimg at your screenshot.

Thank's a lot Derrick

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Derrick

sorry for the confusion..

 

I guess the entire transponder except for the readable part of the SI is scrambled with a constant CW. Because each pid_stream is scrambled separately, the PIDs won't change. What you have is PAT, PMT and names from the SDT. The PID_mapping for the video and audio streams of the different services could be taken from the real DVB-T transmission (look-up from PMTs). But you still would need the CW ;)

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rys

sorry for the confusion..

 

I guess the entire transponder except for the readable part of the SI is scrambled with a constant CW. Because each pid_stream is scrambled separately, the PIDs won't change. What you have is PAT, PMT and names from the SDT. The PID_mapping for the video and audio streams of the different services could be taken from the real DVB-T transmission (look-up from PMTs). But you still would need the CW ;)

Regardimg PID mapping you are right, scrambling is probably done more tricky and cw itself is not sufficient.

rys

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