Any work on DVB-T2?

[uglyned]

Hi,

 

Have the development team done any work with DVB-T2 yet?

 

The tuners have finally hit the market so I've bought one, although it hasn't arrived yet.

 

From reading other forums, even Windows Media Centre seems able to use them so I'm hopeful it'll work in DVBViewer too.

 

Has anyone used a DVB-T2 card with DVBViewer yet?

[Griga]

Have the development team done any work with DVB-T2 yet?

No. Everything depends on how it is handled by the drivers. If they expose the same properties and interfaces as for DVB-T, thus making DVB-T2 "transparent" for the application, it will work without any changes. If they require something special, we will have to find out...

[uglyned]

OK I got the card and it's plugged in.

 

I'm just using Transedit for now.

 

Transedit detects the card correctly. I can't perform a scan on the DVB-T2 mux but it does analyse it. It detects all the channels and that they have h264 video etc.

 

Is there anything else I can try to make the scan work?

[Lars_MQ]

Best is to dump the whole mux and upload it somewhere, so we can analyze it.

[uglyned]

OK. Is 30 seconds enough? Also my dvb-t reception in the heavy snow we have now might not be perfect - will it still be useful to you?

[Derrick]

Does the mux contain a valid PAT (pid 0000)?

[uglyned]

How would I find out? Would that be one of the streams on the analysis screen?

[Griga]

http://www.DVBViewer.com/griga/TransEdit%20E/AnalyzerWindow.html#SITables

[uglyned]

Oh hello. I've done a blind scan and it's scanned the mux and found the channels. Will let scan finish then let you know.

[Derrick]

..it's still not clear why the 1st scan failed. It might be related to wrong parameters.

[uglyned]

It will have been wrong parameters.

 

My ini file is specific to Emley Moor - I got it by doing a full blind scan (some time ago) then deleting everything but the muxes that I knew were Emley Moor. The scan had added the mux at the frequency that the t2 mux uses so I left it there, assuming that a t2 card would be able to use it. Obviously that scan, using dvb-t, had not recorded parameters correctly.

 

I'll create a new ini file when this scan has finished.

[uglyned]

Actually I think maybe it's the signal strength that's the problem. Although transedit can analyse the mux, ir's reporting 0% quality.

 

All other muxes are OK but Emlay Moor has not gone through digital switchover yet, so the HD mux is extremely low powered.

 

I'm sure heavy snow is not helping.

 

I'll keep analysing but I think it's looking good - Transedit detected the card, and on a blind scan the channels were detected. I think the signal is just too poor for me to preview anything.

 

I'll keep scanning and post if I pick anything up.

[uglyned]

Snow is lifting. I can now preview channels but they extremely poor quality - broken up. That's reception though. I can definitely tune and view HD channels on a T2 mux using Transedit and the PCTv 290e.

[uglyned]

DVBViewer also picks up full EPG for the HD channels automatically.

[uglyned]

So, as far as I can tell, now I have done a scan in DVBViewer and picked up the channels, DVBViewer fully supports DVB-T2, without any need for modification.

[Griga]

DVBViewer fully supports DVB-T2, without any need for modification

Good news. However, up to now it only applies to this device / driver (PCTv 290e). See here.

[uglyned]

Thank you.

 

One thing I thought of is I have 2 x DVB-T and one DVB-T2 now.

 

I need to know that DVBViewer recording service will keep the T2 tuner free for DVB-T2 recordings. I guess we need an 'is DVB-T2' check box in configuration, like there is for DVB-S2?

Edited December 1, 2010 by uglyned

[Griga]

I need to know that DVBViewer recording service will keep the T2 tuner free for DVB-T2 recordings.

Assign all DVB-T channels to channel group A, all DVB-T2 channels to group B by using the context menu of the DVBViewer channel editor (setting the channel group for a tree node affects all child nodes). Then go to Options -> Hardware and decide which device shall handle which channel group(s).

[Griga]

@uglyned: Though it can be handled with channel groups, we will probably introduce a DVB-T2 flag in future DVBViewer/TransEdit versions. Therefore we need the IDs of devices that are DVB-T2 capable. Please attach your TransEdit.ini here.

[uglyned]

Attached.

 

DVBViewer detects 2 tuners - the second one with a 'C', which it identifies as a cable tuner. As far as I know, there is no cable tuner on this device - there's certainly nowhere to connect it to a cable supply.

 

So I only use the first tuner identified, PCTV 80e/290e/460e BDA 2875 TVTuner.

[Griga]

Thanks. I've added it to the hardware database.

 

Furthermore a transponder dump (TS file) containing the SI tables (PAT, PMTs, SDT, NIT and maybe EIT, but no video/audio streams) would be good for testing purpose. I guess there is a DVB-T2 Delivery System Descriptor in the NIT. It would enable TransEdit and DVBViewer to auto-detect if a transponder is DVB-T or DVB-T2. Please use the recorder of the TransEdit Analyzer and refer to the TransEdit manual for further instructions, or ask here, if you need help.

 

DVBViewer detects 2 tuners - the second one with a 'C', which it identifies as a cable tuner.

TransEdit detects it as DVB-T Tuner. Does it work?

 

BTW: You are not using the latest TransEdit version 3.6, but the old 3.5.2 version.

[uglyned]

Thanks I'll update.

 

I'll get the mux dump to you but the snow between me and the mast is still very heavy. I got around half an hour clear this morning when reception was good but it has since gone again.

 

The weather forecast is better for the next few days - as soon as it clears I'll send you the data.

 

The second tuner is detected as a cable tuner by DVBViewer. I tried forcing it back to terrestrial and disabling the first tuner but just got errors when trying to use it so I guess it's not.

 

The first tuner detects DVB-T and DVB-T2. And is much faster at tuning, and much more sensitive than the Pinnacle ones I had already, I'm impressed with it, although it was relatively expensive.

[Griga]

The second tuner is detected as a cable tuner by DVBViewer.

In TransEdit it appears as

 

Name.7=PCTV 80e/290e/460e BDA 2875 TVTuner C

TunerType.7=2 //= terrestrial

 

and that's really strange, because TransEdit and DVBViewer are using the same detection system.

 

although it was relatively expensive.

Early adopters always pay more and get engaged as beta testers

[uglyned]

and that's really strange, because TransEdit and DVBViewer are using the same detection system.

 

Sorry i didn't say that quite right - I manually changed it in Transedit too. At first, because of poor reception, the first tuner wouldn't scan the T2 mux so I disabled it, changed the C tuner to terrestrial and tried again. I got an error from Transedit when I tried to scan - saying that a re-scan in hardware might fix the problem. I went back in and enabled the first tuner, but forgot to change the C tuner back. Not that I really need to I guess.

 

I like being a beta tester! Still bad weather here so all I can test at the moment is a black screen.

 

It's very black.

[Derrick]

diversity?

[uglyned]

Hi,

 

Nice weather, so I have the transponder dump.

 

Pretty much every stream from the mux except for video, audio, subtitles.

 

It's not big - about 1.34mb but I can' upload TS files to this site.

 

Thanks

[uglyned]

Uploaded to mediafire

 

Although I've never used it before so don't quite know if it'll work. Let me know.

 

(link now fixed)

Edited December 5, 2010 by uglyned

[Griga]

Thanks.

 

As expected there is a DVB-T2 delivery system descriptor in the NIT (see sceenshot), enabling the identification of such transponders. It doesn't contain much information, not even the centre frequency - could be more, but the rest is optional.

 

TransEdit 3.6 doesn't know how to decode it, so you will only see an Extension Descriptor with DescriptorTagExtension = 0x04 there. I've recently added the T2 descriptor in the parser, and the next release will be able to display the content.

 

Maybe I will upload a TransEdit test version with some DVB-T2 handling within the next days. So please stay tuned...

[anarky]

As you say DVBViewer does pick up HD channels and the EPG works but upon selecting the channel Nothing.

I've installed additional codecs the simple stuff, but no joy.

 

Would DVBViewer benefit from a complete reinstall?

 

Edit: I see it is DVBViewer that's at fault, please rush through an update

Edited December 13, 2010 by anarky

[anarky]

Scratch that works fine just low signal

[xtonys]

Hi

 

If I can help beta test DVB-T2,let me know.

I can start testing DVB-T2 for you from April 2011, when West Midlands transmitters are upgraded.

 

I have already a question, based on DVB-T signal....

If this is a real problem, I would like to fix it before testing DVB-T2...

 

I am in Birmingham area. I have a new Blackgold 3620 DVB-T2 card installed with latest v8.0.0.0 BDA driver.

It picks up DVB-T signals, but reports very low signal (both status bar and OSD miniEPG) - around 5% or less.

Please see link below for Mux1 information. For this test, I am referencing Mux1 as it has maximum signal.

 

I dont know if this is a driver issue, but checking Mux1 on ch34 (578000) on my LG TV, this mux gets around 50% signal - same cable.

When scanning channels in DVBViewer, I see signal indicator often flash green (50-60% signal?) but does not detect any channels.

Why is this happening? I still do find 91 channels (TV & radio).

I will install the latest Transedit to help with testing, but I haven't used this app before.

 

This website may help when cross-referencing each UK transmitter and repeater mast with related DVB-T / T2 muxes.

http://www.ukfree.tv/txdetail.php?a=SO948730

 

This website shows which transmitters have DVB-T2 signals and from when.

 

 

Just for reference...

MC7 can show red button MHEG data over DVB-T with the Blackgold card (allowing MHEG in registry).

Happy to test MHEG in next DVBViewer beta.

EPG data for DVB-T is probably coming from OpenEPG as it does for DVB-S/S2 channels?

 

 

Tony

 

Windows 7 64bit

DVBViewer 4.5

Blackgold 3620 (BDA v8.0.0.0)

CAI new aerial and cable

[uglyned]

You can't compare the signal strength information given by different manufacturers' tuners.

 

I have a USB DVB-T2 tuner and a Pinnacle 7010ix which has 2 DVB-T tuners.

 

The Pinnacle always reports signal strength between 55-60% for any channel it can tune, and it stays pretty static. The T2 tuner reports a much more dynamic signal strength and seems to be much more accurate. When the Pinnacle is reporting 55%, the PCTV USB stick can be reporting anything from 1% to 100%.

[cp2]

I have a BGT3620 getting its signal strength from the Winter Hill transmitter which I can see from my street. DVB-T channels are reported at 4-5% but the DVB-T2 channels are 100%.

I'd say that if you are getting all the channels and there is no break-up or freezing then the signal strength being reported is bogus.

[uglyned]

Then it is. But it's the card that reports the data, not the software or operating system.

[Griga]

Maybe I will upload a TransEdit test version with some DVB-T2 handling within the next days.

ATM I'm not sure what to do.

 

Marking DVB-T2 transponders / channels (displaying them in blue like DVB-S2 transponders) could be a useful information in some cases. Providing a "DVB-T2 device" flag in the hardware options would make it easier for people who have DVB-T and DVB-T2 devices. They wouldn't have to set up channel groups in order to teach DVBViewer which device is able to handle what.

 

On the other side it might create additional problems. Trying to use a new DVB-T2 device - yet unknown to DVBViewer - for transponders marked as DVB-T2 would cause an error message ("No matching device available..."). It wouldn't work, unless manually configured as DVB-T2 device.

 

So I decided to wait and first observe the situation a bit. Nevertheless the upcoming TransEdit 3.6.1.0 release will be able to decode T2 delivery system descriptors (see here), thus helping to solve another problem: I have no sample containing a complete T2 descriptor (including frequency information) yet, that is necessary for implementing DVB-T2 auto-detection capabilities. The specs say that it is only present once (on a single transponder) per DVB-T system.

 

@uglyned: Maybe you can find it once the new TransEdit release is out...

[johnoo]

well I got one of these pinnacle t2 tuner and although its only reporting on HD at 20% signal theres no breakup and a clear picture though,all channels found straight away as well.kinda shocked at the bitrates there using(I thought freesat was low on bbc at 9 Mbit/s)barely reaching 6 Mbit/s and often 4.Big difference from when I had the cable tuner working and eurosport HD was about 18 Mbit/s.I guess that maybe the new T2 encorder? ITV HD has better bitrate's,Its a kinda cool tuner but I would never recommend one over a freesat setup.

[latitudehopper]

I have a dual DVBT tuner and the pinnacle DVBT2 USB. It said it was supported with the supported tool. If it is, how can I get it to work as it only seems to scan with one card...

Edited April 7, 2011 by latitudehopper