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Real 3D TV broadcast?


ricabullah

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Hi guys,

 

I have limited number of sats nowadays so i can't check it by my own.

 

Could somebody tell me if there is any real 3D TV broadcast over Europe? (i mean field sequential-left first/ non anaglyph)

 

Thanks.

 

Here is the list of 3D channels:

http://en.kingofsat.net/3dtv.php

 

 

FOR NEWBIES: HOW TO CHECK OUT?

 

Record the broadcast as file (ts)

 

Load Stereoscopic Player trial. (fully functional for the first five minutes.)

Open the file with SP and select "field sequential- left side first)

Select "view stereoscopic"

In this case you should see left video and right video at the same time. If the colors seem natural it is what i want.

If you see un-natural redish greenish colors it means it's anaglyph amd that channel is fake 3D..

 

_ _ _ _ _

Edited by ricabullah
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As far as i know it's not the decision of the broadcast how the images are displayed, they send side-by-side images which your device can either display anaglyph or sequential (synchronized with shutter-glasses)

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As far as i know it's not the decision of the broadcast how the images are displayed, they send side-by-side images which your device can either display anaglyph or sequential (synchronized with shutter-glasses)

 

This is another thing. What i was talking about is encoding style of TV channel, not decoding or watching style of it.

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Ok,

 

Maybe some of my German friends do me a favor;

 

could you upload a 150 MB sample record from "Sky 3D Germany"?

 

It would be appreciated.

 

Thanks.

Edited by ricabullah
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Do you have Astra 19,2°?

The Sky 3D channel is FTA on afternoon, sending a promotion loop.

If you can't tune in, i could upload a sample the next days.

 

I don't have it so i would appreciate if you may upload.

Thanks.

Edited by ricabullah
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OK, there are some clear channels on this list:

http://en.kingofsat.net/3dtv.php

 

Somebody may upload from any of those?

 

BTW Christian it's your turn; DVBViewer is gonna be the first live DVB Player for 3D broadcast.

This is what i expect. Forget funny shaders, we need real 3D.

(Don't forget you were the one first gave us EVR DXVA support.)

Edited by ricabullah
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I know it and i suggested on that thread:

 

http://www.DVBViewer.tv/forum/topic/40858-3d-anaglyph-shader/page__view__findpost__p__319621

 

And on my previous post i stated "funny shaders":

 

BTW Christian it's your turn; DVBViewer is gonna be the first live DVB Player for 3D broadcast.

This is what i expect. Forget funny shaders, we need real 3D.

(Don't forget you were the one first gave us EVR DXVA support.)

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I suppose ricabullah meant a working application and not such an instable application like progdvb. I suppose there are multiple reasons why Christian did not implemented it yet. First of all it's a nieche product which requires expensive hardware. So there are lets say only a few houndred people maybe interested in the DVBViewer and if you use the search function you will realize that those who are interested in such a solution often not interested in paying the software license. So i guess the efford is compared to the benefit quite huge. To keep in mind that i suppose Christian/Lars have to buy expensive hardware to get these transmissions to work. Monitor+Glasses are still extremely expensive these days. I suppose you have to wait for such a feature until the todo list went empty :whistle:

 

Peter

Edited by ElecardFAN
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I suppose ricabullah meant a working application and not such an instable application like progdvb.

Correct.

 

To keep in mind that i suppose Christian/Lars have to buy expensive hardware to gethese transmissions to work. Monitor+Glasses are still extremely expensive these days.

Not correct. I use an ACER 5360 PJ (500 bucks) + nvidia kit (150 bucks) +nvidia 430 (90 bucs)

 

I suppose you have to wait for such a feature until the todo list went empty :whistle:

I don't think the todo list went empty someday and i don't have time so much.

Edited by ricabullah
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it's in reality only the glasses that are expensive. Any 100Hz TV can Stereoscopic TV with small SW change and 40 cent IR LED to sync the glasses to the alternate frames. Transmission is two 960x1080i25fps 50Hz images in 1920x1080 frame. Any TV or setbox with "interactive" can take one half of frame and stretch it to full screen. each image is shown stretch from 960x1080 to 1920x1080 at 50fps alternately, so total frame rate 100Hz. Glasses just need a 100Hz sync pulse from IR LED on Tv.

 

All TVs will have this as standard and they will just charge extra for glasses.

 

http://www.techtir.ie/tv-radio/3d-tv

 

For sure it's not 3D at all.

http://www.techtir.ie/blog/watty/sky-launch-3d-channel

 

It's not going to work too well on DVBViewer on most PCs unless you have a "3D" TV, in which case it's nearly simple. The TV does the work. Otherwise you need a Graphics card and Monitor that does 1920x1080p100 Not too common.

 

There seems to be a 3D clear FTA test on 9E Ku band (Eurobird 9A?)

Edited by mobiwan
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Well neither Lars, nor myself are willing to buy such a hardware - especially since we both wear regular glasses. I attached a sample application (requires the d3dx9.dll) which should display the image posted a few days ago in this thread. If you have a 3d vision hardware - theoretically - you should see the image displayed in 3d mode, all others just stare at a left/right image.

If there is someone with such a hardware please test this. If its not working and if there is somebody with some coding knowledge (plus such a hardware), please contact :)

 

Christian

sample.zip

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Well neither Lars, nor myself are willing to buy such a hardware - especially since we both wear regular glasses. I attached a sample application (requires the d3dx9.dll) which should display the image posted a few days ago in this thread. If you have a 3d vision hardware - theoretically - you should see the image displayed in 3d mode, all others just stare at a left/right image.

If there is someone with such a hardware please test this. If its not working and if there is somebody with some coding knowledge (plus such a hardware), please contact :)

 

Christian

 

Hi Christian.

Unfortunately it's not working; i still see left and right frames with my 3D HW.

BTW you can use those shutter glasses over your ordinary glasses without any problem.

Best.

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It should only work in exclusive Mode, which means you have to start the app with the parameter -full

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Hi Hackbart,

 

I'm very happy to know you are working on 3D :)

 

For your information: you don't need to buy hardware to support NVidia 3DVision.

There's an option in the 3D Vision driver you can set to analglyph output. If this is working (over the NVidia interface), the driver will do the rest for real 3D support (as you are only delivering the video data to the driver, the analglyph rendering is done by NVidia).

 

I have no good coding experience, but of course I would help you testing the feature over and over, since I have a 3D projector and the NVidia 3DVision set to test - so feel free to contact me!

 

Thank you for everything,

 

Michael

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aaah:

forgot something to add:

Your sample is working fine using 3DVision - just the aspect ratio of the image is wrong, but glasses start shuttering and effect is working!

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aaah:

forgot something to add:

Your sample is working fine using 3DVision - just the aspect ratio of the image is wrong, but glasses start shuttering and effect is working!

 

When i start the sample.exe on CML with -full i get a full black blank screen but glasses start shuttering.

I think sample must be a short clip at least.

 

Thanks for your efforts btw.

Edited by ricabullah
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Well the image is half sized, because i did not added one undocumented flag to the attached NV3D header. In theory it is quite simple to integrate shutter glasses: First you have to force D3D Exclusive mode inside the application (which means fullscreen and no windows based input controls). Next you have to add the NVidia header to the left/right image (also extremely simple) and finally you have to use stretchblt the surface to the screen. This is well lets say not possible inside the DVBViewer. We use textures for the gui as well as for the video, visuals etc. I did not found any other solution to mark a video texture other than this one explained here:

http://developer.download.nvidia.com/presentations/2009/GDC/GDC09-3DVision-The_In_and_Out.pdf

 

Christian

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Just to understand it right:

Currently you are creating vertices for the video AND the OSD and draw the video as texture onto these elements?

 

But shouldn't it be possible to draw the video with the NVidia Header to the texture using StretchRect?

 

Sry if I'm unterstanding something wrong - just started to read about this topic...

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Yes all elements are textures placed on vertices. The video textures are created by the evr and vmr allocator and handled directly inside the graphic card memory. I can not just modify these textures.

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Okay, I unterstand... So the only way to display the 3D content would be to give up the EVR/VMR way in 3D mode as you cannot add the NVidia header to the data provided by the EVR/VMR, right?

 

This wouldn't be very nice, indeed.

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i have no idea how to solve this. There are multiple things undocumented and it is annoying to fiddle everything out.

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Perhaps the best way would be to get a contact to the NVidia driver developers somehow.

I'm sure they are pleased to help in this problem, as they want as many applications to be "NVidia 3D Vision ready"...

 

Also you can advertise your software this way ;-)

 

Thank you for your tremendous work so far!

 

 

Edit: I will keep on reading about the stereo rendering of NVidia and bother you with new ideas *gg*

Edited by Schindi87
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  • 3 weeks later...
Schindi87

Okay, I had time to think and read about this topic again. So how about this:

 

1) You use EVR to render the side-by-side video as usual on your surface

2) You render the GUI twice (for each eye) onto this surface

3) You now have a pre-rendered stereo compatible scene (with EVR!) for the NVidia driver

4) Now use the StereoBLT API to present this output on 3D screens

 

 

I think this should work, without changing anything in the workflow of DVBViewer's rendering engine.

Just the last step has to be added and switched on and off.

(The D3D exclusive mode shouldn't be a problem. Somehow this is even working in windowed mode, but currently I don't know how. NVidia managed to play 3d samples using MS Silverlight in a browser window. Because Windows 7 Aero is turned off in this moment, I think they shoot all other D3D applications to be "exclusive" in windowed mode...)

Edited by Schindi87
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  • 3 weeks later...
Nick [D]vB

Any progress on this yet? Couldn't we just use the directshow filters from Stereoscopic player? If 3D users are happy not to have GUI / OSD in 3D programs maybe you could just add an option to select the "3dtv.at stereo renderer" filter as a renderer output, for use with 3Dvision etc. I think the "3dtv.at stereo transformation filter" can be loaded by the DVBViewer post-processor plugin, so maybe we are half way there already? But I'm not a developer so I'm sure I am missing something...

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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 months later...
hackbart

Well honestly we have a lot more important things on our Development list open. It is just the missing time and lack of hardware to work in 3D transmission. Also keep in mind that the Direct3D Output inside the DVBViewer is far more complex than in other apps.

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ricabullah

Well honestly we have a lot more important things on our Development list open. It is just the missing time and lack of hardware to work in 3D transmission. Also keep in mind that the Direct3D Output inside the DVBViewer is far more complex than in other apps.

 

OK, thanks for the response.

At least we know anymore we have to forget watching 3D over DVBViewer and please forgive me for asking why this is far more comlex than the other applcations?

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hackbart

This is damn unfair from you, as you know we had really spent hours of work with 3d ouput.

The OSD consists of more than just the display of tv. We have to deal with a whole texture system and all the other stuff which is not visible. Further on we have to add things like the support of new adapters (e.g. Hauppauge PVR HD), video on demand etc. This has higher priority for us, simply because we can not live by users who brought a license 6 or more years ago, so it is a required to implement features which would be more popular. I did not said never, but i said not Now!

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ricabullah

Yes i understand you have to add support for new adapters and this must have the priority for you.

But i don't understand why you don't ask an additonal annual fee from the former users? Those are your rules not mine.

And in this case it's cllear that the demands or feature requests of former users will be done anytime after finishing the priorities of new customers.

And those new customers' requests will never finish coz there will be always newer customers.

Edited by ricabullah
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