DVBViewer Pro and problem scanning with SkyStar USB HD

[amirhs]

Hi, all,

I just purchased a Technisat SkyStar USB HD card, replacing my old SkyStar USB. First off, I have to say that I love the new card -- compared with the old card it improves the reception quality by at least 18% and oftentimes the quality increase is about 24%. Channel-switching and HD/S2 viewing are very fast with DVBViewer Pro V4.60.1 and the latest SkyStar drivers V4.60.

However, I'm facing a strange problem which was a nonissue with the old USB 1.1 non-HD/non-S2 card. If I use DVBViewer's "Channel scan" feature to scan a certain satellite or search from transponder X to transponder Y, DVBViewer skips certain transponders and fails to detect even a single channels for them. Unchecking the "Only active channels" check box and checking the "In-depth search" check boxes don't help either in almost all instances. However, if I single-scan those problematic transponders, that is if I scan them one by one, DVBViewer almost always detects and displays the channels as expected. Once detected, DVBViewer has no difficulty displaying and activating those channels.

I really can't tell why this happens or what common feature(s), if any, these transponders share, but I can say that it does affect certain transponders on Hotbird, Eutelsat W3A, Badr, and Eurobird 2 satellites -- these are the ones I've scanned so far. For instance, it affects the following strong transponder on Eurobird 2 at 25.5º East: 11013,H,27500,34,DVB-S,QPSK.

Also, upon closer inspection I can claim that it apparently has nothing to do with the transponder polarity as DVBViewer can easily successfully scan, say, many transponders with a horizontal polarity -- see the example problematic transponder above.

Having said all of the above, I'd like to know if there exists a solution to this issue or if this is a known bug. If the latter, any chance of fixing it with a future DVBViewer Pro release? Or should Technisat fix it in a future driver release? V4.60 of Technisat drivers seems to be quite mature, though. Your suggestions, recommendations and opinions are appreciated.

Thanks.

[Griga]

Please try scanning with TransEdit (the full version from the members area). Same issue?

 

Are you using the BDA or the WDM resp. network driver?

[amirhs]

Thanks, Griga. Will try TransEdit and report the results here. I'm using the network drivers now, but do you recommend BDA for this particular card? If so, how can I install the BDA drivers? Sorry -- don't know that.

[Griga]

but do you recommend BDA for this particular card?

For older TechniSat cards the network driver is far better, because it allows to avoid bandwidth problems by activating hardware PID filtering (Options -> Hardware -> Open full transponder off). However, the SkyStar USB HD hardware is more powerful in this respect, so the BDA driver (that is always delivering the whole transponder stream) should work fine, provided you don't need DiSEqC 1.1/1.2.

 

If so, how can I install the BDA drivers?

Check your installation CD - should be located in one of the directories.

[amirhs]

Griga, how should I view the channels which have been scanned by TransEdit 3.7.1? After I select a satellite there and adjust the proper settings, I hit the "Scann all" button, but after a couple of minutes the main TransEdit dialog re-appears and I don't seem to be able to find the channels it's scanned. Any suggestions? BTW, as the Scan dialog appears in TransEdit, it seems that users can't find out which transponder it's scanning and how many channels it's found so far. Is this an expected behavior or an anomaly?

[Griga]

Dunno what you mean. Please read the manual, particularly

 

http://www.DVBViewer.com/griga/TransEdit%20E/ScannerWindow.html#Title

[amirhs]

Mega thanks, Griga. I do have the BDA folder but it doesn't have an installer or an executable inside. To get the BDA drivers installed, does it suffice to attach the USB cord to the computer, browse to the BDA folder in the "Found new hardware" dialog, and let the dialog install the drivers on its own? Of course, this should be done after uninstalling the currently-installed network drivers. I haven't yet ordered a motor so don't need DiSEqC 1.1/1.2 for now -- I currently have access to 4 satellites via 4 dishes/LMBs and a switcher. Hope I'm not mistaken <g>.

[amirhs]

OK, Griga, I finally figured out how to access the results after a scan is completed -- as I'm using a screen reader, JAWS for Windows, the windows were being shuffled after each scan.

Anyway, this doesn't resolve my issue either. Even worse, using the "Scann all" button actually detects fewer channels for each satellite compared with DVBViewer's built-in scanner. For EuroBird 2, for instance, it keeps finding channels for a single transponder -- 11681, H, 27500. If, however, I "select-scan" transponders separately, everything functions as expected. What do you think might be wrong?

Thanks.

[Griga]

Tick "Open Whole Transponder" in the TransEdit Hardware Settings. Same issue?

[amirhs]

Selecting the "Open Whole Transponder" check box doesn't resolve the issue either. Again TransEdit keeps detecting channels for a single and fixed transponder. I also want to try the BDA drivers, but as I mentioned in a previous post, I don't know how to install them from the BDA folder.

[Griga]

Seems I have to test my (still unused) SkyStar USB HD here

 

I don't know how to install them from the BDA folder.

Just tell Windows that you want to update the driver, direct Windows to this folder resp. the contained INF file and install it. Then reboot. AFAIK it is not necessary to uninstall the previous driver. It is easier to revert to it when Windows simply overrides it.

 

Don't forget to perform a new hardware search in DVBViewer and TransEdit afterwards ("Detect Devices" resp. "Scan Devices" in the hardware settings.

 

P.S. You may have to tick the "DVB-S2 device" checkbox in the hardware options manually after having installed the BDA driver.

[amirhs]

Great instructions! Will try and report the results.

One quick note: while this does affect a few transponders on Hotbird, I haven't detected them -- it has more than 100 transponders. However, if you have access to Eutelsat W3A at 7º East, you may want to keep the following transponder under your radar: 10928,H,30000,34,DVB-S,QPSK. This one gets missed by the scanner as well though I've also seen this with so-called regular 27500 transponders on, say, Eurobird 2.

[amirhs]

I just tried the BDA drivers, but this approach doesn't resolve the issue either. Both DVBViewer and TransEdit keep ignoring transponders, and in the case of a satellite like Eurobird 2 at 25.5º east, both ignore a good number of active and strong ones.

BTW, I've also noticed that with BDA drivers DVBViewer displays a noticeably lower reception quality for channels in the "status bar," and this quality reduction is at least 20 to 30 percent. Can this be called an issue, affecting the scanning or reception of already weaker transponders?

[Griga]

I've also noticed that with BDA drivers DVBViewer displays a noticeably lower reception quality for channels in the "status bar," and this quality reduction is at least 20 to 30 percent. Can this be called an issue

No. It's most likely a different interpretation of values passing through different interfaces. The signal strength/quality values reported by DVB devices / drivers are just a rough indication, but no precise measurement.

 

DVBViewer skips certain transponders and fails to detect even a single channels for them

What about channel switching in DVBViewer? When a channel from a "working" transponder is tuned, and you switch over to a channel on a subsequent "problematic" transponder (in scanning order), does it always work?

 

What kind of outdoor equipment is involved?

[amirhs]

Griga, channel-switching always functions properly and fast regardless of the transponder. That is, if I move from a channel belonging to a so-called error-free transponder to a channel belonging to a problematic transponder, the second channel gets activated in a wink! So the problem affects scanning only and when the transponder isn't single-scanned. I'm using DVBViewer Pro on a Vista 32-bit machine to access 4 dishes/4 LMBs, giving me access to 4 satellites in the form of Pos A/Opt A, Pos A/Opt B, Pos B/Opt A, and Pos B/Opt B. Moving among channels from different satellites is also very fast.

Do you recommend trying another DVB app to check the scope of the problem?

[Griga]

channel-switching always functions properly and fast regardless of the transponder.

That's strange, because the tuning process is exactly the same. However, the surrounding conditions are a bit different:

 

- The scanner tunes the next transponder automatically without user interaction.

 

- The general CPU load is probably much lower (depending on how much is required by video/audio decoding on your PC).

 

Since the energy saving states of modern CPUs are known to cause unwanted side effects in some cases, I would try scanning in DVBViewer while it is playing a video file.

[amirhs]

Well I'm using a 2.0GHZ core-to-duo notebook with 4GB of RAM. Tried playing a video file (an FLV one) while scanning to no avail -- it didn't improve scanning at all. I also changed the status of the BDA TechniSat device from "Normal" to "Preferred," but it didn't help either. BTW, with BDA drivers used for SkyStar USB HD, the DVBViewer incorrectly indicates that the BDA device has a CI module -- I had to untick that check box in the Hardware section of the Options dialog. Of course, this has nothing to do with scanning results, but I thought I'd mention it with V4.60.1 of DVBViewer -- haven't yet tested the newly-released V4.80.

Any other suggestions?

[amirhs]

Griga and all,

I just tried the standard edition of ProgDVB V6.61.3 to check the scope of the problem, but it never misses a transponder. I have to admit that I don't like ProgDVB at all as, compared with DVBViewer, it's definitely more memory-hungry and less feature-rich -- .net-based apps are more memory-hogging and noticeably less stable, but, unlike DVBViewer, it scans transponders in its "Channel search" window without missing a single one.

To give you an example, Eurobird 2 which is located at 25.5º east (and can be accessed along with the more powerful Badr satellites at 26º East) has a number of transponders but just some of them are active. If I scan this satellite via ProgDVB, it gives me 55 channels, and that's the exact number. However, DVBViewer 4.80 only gives 9 channels and mysteriously ignores the rest of the transponders in collective scanning. If transponders are single-scanned, however, everything functions as expected.

Griga, would it be possible for you to look into this issue more closely? If you want, I can detect and report such problematic transponders on Hotbird as it affects some of them there, too.

Thanks.

[Griga]

I'm running out of ideas

 

I've just connected my SkyStar USB HD to my second PC (Windows XP) and an Invacom Twin LNB (doesn't need DiSEqC), installed the network driver and TechniSat software 4.6 - TransEdit scans Astra 19° East without failure.

 

Additionally I've closed the TechniSat software Server4PC and, by using MSConfig, removed it from the auto start (it's only required for internet via satellite). And I've unticked the "Computer may switch the device off for energy saving" option in the driver properties. However, these measures seem to have no influence here. Scanning worked with and without it.

 

I'm quite sure something special in your PC or some issue concerning the communication between the SkyStar USB HD and your outdoor equipment is causing the trouble. But I have no explanation for it up to now.

[amirhs]

Here I've also removed Server4PC's shortcut from the Startup folder as I don't want to have it run with each Windows restart. However, I can't try Astra 19º East as it cannot be accessed from the Mid East. So far I've tried both the network drivers and BDA ones -- am using BDA now, but the results are exactly the same.

Just a suggestion: would it be possible for you to try scanning Hotbird? With this satellite almost everything works well but DVBViewer does miss at least a couple of transponders. I wish I could detect something problematic in my equipment, but the very same setup works well with ProgDVB so I can't imagine how something might be wrong at that end.

And, last but not least, in case you found something, do inform me as I'd be glad to test whatever you might cook!

[Griga]

Try to scan the default satellite position of your switch (mostly A/A) with TransEdit and DiSEqC set to None (don't forget to click Apply after having changed it). What happens?

[amirhs]

I've done that, and TransEdit is currently scanning Hotbird. Channels are being detected, but I have to wait till the end of the scan process to determine if transponders have been ignored (based on the number of channels). Will report shortly.

[Griga]

but I have to wait till the end of the scan process to determine if transponders have been ignored (based on the number of channels).

The easiest way it to tick "Settings -> Scanner1 -> Mark transponders without signal/PAT with [X] / [N]"

 

It will let TransEdit insert a [X] mark in the description of all Transponders that delivered no results. After saving the transponder list with the [X] marks you can post it here, so I can see which transponders are missing. The transponder lists are located in the configuration folder\Transponders subdirectory. See Info -> Configuration Folder in TransEdit. The menu item opens an Explorer Window showing the content of the configuration folder.

[amirhs]

Well I'm surprised! With the default satellite switch, TransEdit has found 2486 channels for Hotbird -- presumably all channels have been detected! With the switch set to Pos A/Opt A, TransEdit has found 2450 channels. Though still surprising, 26 channels are missing. I'm now scanning in DVBViewer itself, having unticked "only active channels" and ticked "in-depth search."

[amirhs]

I Just saw your latest post, so will follow the instructions accordingly. Do you want the results for Hotbird, Eutelsat W3A, or Eurobird 2? And, in Hotbird's case, with or without the default satellite switch?

[amirhs]

Having followed your instructions, I just finished scanning Eurobird 2 via TransEdit and its Pos B/Opt B switch. Attached is the modified INI file which uses the X marker to identify several transponders. While you'll see many X markers, please pay particular attention to "11013" which has been ignored by TransEdit yet again. It has a very strong signal but is always ignored. Unlike previous attempts, however, this scan has detected 30 channels, but the channels should actually be 56.

I'm performing the same test on Hotbird and Eutelsat W3A, and will post the results here.

0255.ini

[amirhs]

Just a brief comment. TransEdit, by default at least, displays the so-called sub-channels or, I believe, PIDs belonging to a single channel as separate, independent entities; and that describes why I saw 2400+ channels for Hotbird. Just wanted to correct that.

[amirhs]

And here's the results of the Hotbird scan in TransEdit via Pos A/Opt A. You'll find many missed/ignored transponders with the X marker for a 2259 channel number.

0130.ini

[xtonys]

Griga, channel-switching always functions properly and fast regardless of the transponder. That is, if I move from a channel belonging to a so-called error-free transponder to a channel belonging to a problematic transponder, the second channel gets activated in a wink! So the problem affects scanning only and when the transponder isn't single-scanned. I'm using DVBViewer Pro on a Vista 32-bit machine to access 4 dishes/4 LMBs, giving me access to 4 satellites in the form of Pos A/Opt A, Pos A/Opt B, Pos B/Opt A, and Pos B/Opt B. Moving among channels from different satellites is also very fast.

Do you recommend trying another DVB app to check the scope of the problem?

 

Hi

 

I also have SkyStar S2 usb tuners. One on Astra 2A/Eurobird 1 and one on Turksat 2A/3A.

I have win7 64 bit, and have been running DVBViewer 4.5.0.0. Everything scans and works fine. I did notice some sort of bug with reporting signal strength on Astra 2A/Eurobird1, but my local satellite engineer showed me meter readings at several points on the cabling are over 80% (which is above min SNR for Sky HD installations).

I tried DVBViewer v4.6 recently, and could scan the devices, but could not scan channels or watch channels.

I have the latest BDA driver installed for the tuners.

 

I would am keen to try v4.8 as it support MHEG, but I cant login in to the members area. I reset my password, but no luck...

Edited April 22, 2011 by xtonys

[amirhs]

Hi xtonys,

We're experiencing different issues as I can tune in to all channels, but certain fixed transponders are ignored upon scanning.

As for the reception quality which appears in the Status bar, if you want a more realistic number (at least corresponding to the one which digital satellite finders display), I'd suggest using the network drivers not the BDA ones. BDA drivers show a noticeably lower percentage -- sometimes as much as 60%. According to Griga and based on my own experience, this is a nonissue for channel-viewing and I myself am using BDA drivers now, but I believe the network drivers are much more suitable for adjusting dishes and checking the accuracy of the process on the computer.

Good luck...

[Griga]

Some of your Hotbird failures I would call expected:

 

- 10829 H doesn't exist anymore (see Lyngsat)

- 11013 H seems to be dead as well

- 11373 H (Mediaset) uses a special modulation that is not supported by DVB-S devices.

- 12303 V (Orange) seems to be difficult... maybe they are using a spot beam.

 

I can't receive these transponders either with my 45 cm dish connected to a Hauppauge Nova S2 HD. However, I have no explanation for the other [X]-marked transponders in your file. Are always the same transponders affected, or does it vary?

 

Something you can try: Settings -> Hardware -> Retune Attempts. Set it to 1 or 2. It lets the TransEdit scanner retune a transponder if no data is coming in.

[amirhs]

I just tried both hardware retune values but scanning wasn't affected at all. Of course, the scanning time was extended, but the same transponders were ignored. With the satellites I've tried so far almost the same transponders are always ignored -- here I oftentimes tend to use Eurobird 2 for comparison purposes as -- compared with other satellites -- it has fewer transponders, thereby making it easier to check and find ignored transponders -- 11013 is always ignored, for instance, though it has a very strong signal.

[Derrick]

IMHO your hotbird scan doesn't show any hardware or software related problem. As @Griga already mentioned your list is not completely up-to-date. Hotbird is not a single satellite but a group of different satellites with different power and beams. Some of which are probably not strong enough in your area.

 

Some transponders use higher modulation schemes which are not supported by your hardware (neither by mine ). Strange enough one of those transponders shows a positive scan in your ini. Could you please repeat 11334H? If you get a result, a screen shot form the analyzer window would be nice..

 

Here's a fresh 0130.ini from me

[amirhs]

Hi Derrick,

I'm trying that Hotbird transponder -- I know that Hotbird actually consists of HB6, 8, and 9. However, inactive transponders aside, I can successfully scan the rest of the transponders if I scan each transponder independently; so it is in group-scans that transponders are ignored. And it's limited to DVBViewer -- ProgDVB doesn't display it at all.

[amirhs]

Here 11334 on Hotbird displays a progress indicator as it's being scanned, but apparently it's got no channels.

[Griga]

I've connected the SkyStar USB HD to my first PC and the TechniSat Multytenne 45 cm dish, installed the WDM driver and software 4.6... and it scans all Hotbird (DiSEqC B/A) transponders quite happily. Except one SkyItalia transponder for unknown reasons.

 

It is even able to deliver results from transponders where my Hauppauge Nova S2 failed completely, e.g Hotbird 12303 V, though the analyzer shows a lot of garbage data and missing packets. This transponder seems to be quite weak here, as already assumed.

 

Same on Astra 23° East, e.g. the new Bulgarian DVB-S2 transponder 12207 V. The overall impression suggests that the SkyStar USB HD tuner is a bit better than the Nova S2 HD tuner. However, I can't receive the MediaSet transponders on Hotbird at all, e.g. 11334 H. I don't know whether this is due to my small dish or the modulation.

 

And now, strange enough, after playing a bit with the SkyStar USB HD, I'm also experiencing the issue described by amirhs. No tuner lock on some frequencies when performing Scan All. That is good, because it allows investigating on it.

 

@amirhs: Please use the WDM/network driver, so that we are referring to the same base. It gives more opportunity to influence tuning. And set Settings -> Scanner2 -> Tuner Lock Timeout to a higher value in TransEdit, e.g. to 5000 or even 10000 ms (only applies if the WDM driver is used). It seems to help at least in some cases.

[amirhs]

Great piece of news, Griga! I'm glad you also duplicated what I'm experiencing. I'm now reinstalling the network drivers to try what you suggested.

In the meantime -- and at the risk of getting a bit off-topic, now that you've added support for QBox 3 to DVBViewer 4.80, would you please inform me as to the quality of its tuner, compared with that of SkyStar USB HD? And do you know if its tuner is better than that of QBox II? And do you know if, like SkyStar USB HD, it switches off power at a certain ###### mA to protect the hardware when a motor is connected to the card? In short, I want to know your expert opinion of QBox 3.

[Griga]

would you please inform me as to the quality of its tuner, compared with that of SkyStar USB HD?

I have no experience with QBOX at all.

 

One of the problematic Hotbird transponders here is 11075 V (MTV Networks). That's what I do for testing: I select this transponder and the preceding one (11054 H, MediaBroadcast), so both are scanned on "Scan Selected". Sometimes 11075 V is scanned immediately, as it should be, but often enough it takes several seconds until a tuner lock occurs and data arrives. If the tuner lock timeout is too low, TransEdit gives up. With 20000 milliseconds = 20 seconds timeout I'm almost always getting results...

[amirhs]

That's really interesting, Griga. Here also the 20000 Tuner Timeout value is the only surefire way to get SkyStar USB HD to scan Hotbird's 11054 and 11075 transponders without having one of them ignored. Strangely, with smaller values such as 5000 or 10000 sometimes 11054 is ignored, sometimes 11075 is ignored, and sometimes both are ignored completely, and I get both transponders scanned very occasionally.

This is also true with Eurobird 2's 11013 transponder. If I scan it along with the 11010 transponder (which has no channel) via the 20000 value, it always scans and displays channels, but with smaller values 11013 is always missed. As such, here the only working value is 20000.

What do you think this means? Any chance of fixing it in DVBViewer, or should it be reported to TechniSat? With a value like 20000 it takes a staggering amount of time in order for TransEdit to scan even a small satellite like Eurobird 2 let alone Hotbird.

[amirhs]

One more point: With DVBViewer's own Channel Scanner sometimes attempting to scan the single 11054 or 11075 transponder results in the display of no channels, so, at least with DVBViewer itself, single scans of transponders sometimes fail. Ticking the In-depth search and unticking Only active channels help, but even with these modifications single scans might fail.