Griga Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 P.S. With 30000 milliseconds tuner lock timeout two complete Hotbird scans were without failure. However, I've found no means to change this odd behaviour yet Quote Link to comment
amirhs Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share Posted April 23, 2011 I'm also scanning all of my satellites using the 30000 Timeout value now -- have removed all previous scans as I don't trust them anymore! Please let me know if you come up with something, replacing this time-consuming yet tenable solution. And it would be good if something could be found for DVBViewer's internal scanner. Quote Link to comment
Griga Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Strangely, with smaller values such as 5000 or 10000 sometimes 11054 is ignored, sometimes 11075 is ignored, and sometimes both are ignored completely Same here. The required time varies randomly. Seems the tuner /driver is playing dice... or should it be reported to TechniSat? Be sure that I will! With a value like 20000 it takes a staggering amount of time in order for TransEdit to scan even a small satellite like Eurobird 2 let alone Hotbird. Not so bad here. Only some transponders are affected, and mostly they are tuned within 5 to 10 seconds. Nevertheless we have a kind of solution, so I will lean back and relax a bit now... Quote Link to comment
amirhs Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share Posted April 23, 2011 Sadly, I've uninstalled TechniSat's bundled DVBViewer app -- and even have removed it from the downloaded V4.60 driver folder -- to check if this also affects that customized application, but I'm dead sure they'll check it themselves as you report it! Please share their tentative reply. What stalls me with higher Timeout values is that, in many instances at least, as the scanner window starts the operation, the window enters a half-active stage, denying me access to what it's doing and which transponder it's scanning. And if a satellite (like Badr/Eurobird 2/Nilesat) contains many inactive or problematic transponders, the scanning time will be oddly elongated. Quote Link to comment
amirhs Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share Posted April 23, 2011 Griga, I must thank you for the tremendous effort you put into this issue. At least -- and before it's completely resolved, now I can reliably scan all satellites without worrying about channel losses whatsoever. In case you found the ultimate solution or TechniSat guys provided you with something, please post it here. As ProgDVB is handling this case properly -- at least as far as my short experiment with it and Eurobird 2/Hotbird is concerned, I hope this becomes a nonissue soon. Thanks. Quote Link to comment
Griga Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 A surprising result of further tests: Problematic transponders were received much faster after changing the frequency a bit. E.g. Hotbird 11075 V: With 11079 MHz I get the tuner lock always immediately. Unfortunately shifting the frequencies of the whole transponder list by changing the LOF values (e.g. LOF1 from 9750 to 9746 on the left side of the TransEdit main window, yielding + 4 MHz for all low band transponder frequencies) didn't work out. Other transponders got problematic. The local oscillator frequencies of LNBs, that are used to mix the original transponder frequency down to an intermediate frequency, are not always precise. However, a tuner should be able to catch frequencies that are a bit off the mark within a certain range. It seems the SkyStar USB HD tuner is not able to do it properly. A comparative test with my SkyStar S2 PCI didn't show such issues. Quote Link to comment
Griga Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 @amirhs: Please try the attached TransEdit test version (TransEdit_Test.exe). Store it in your DVBViewer installation. It is a restriced version. The Analyzer and export functions are disabled, but scanning works. I've changed the following: 1) Removed the tuner lock timeout thing completely. That means, the scanner doesn't care anymore if the hardware reports a tuner lock or not. It goes on waiting. Of course it can't wait forever, so now the important timeout value is the PAT timeout. Increase it, if necessary 2) Removed a workaround for SkyStar2 DiSEqC issues (a kind of double tuning), that seems to have some influence. I don't need it. Maybe it's not necessary for up-to-date drivers anymore. Additionally tick Settings -> Scanner1 -> Always scan with auto FEC detection. Looks like these measures don't solve the issue completely, but make scanning faster and more reliable altogether. At least they seem to bring us closer to what we want. TransEdit_3_7_1_5_Test.zip Quote Link to comment
amirhs Posted April 24, 2011 Author Share Posted April 24, 2011 Griga, so based on your latest brilliant finding RE off-the-mark transponders, do you think this is more of a hardware issue? If so, I'll probably have to re-evaluate the status of TechniSat and its cards. After all, SkyStar USB HD is the most expensive USB card on the market -- excluding the ones which have a CI module, and TechniSat itself is the so-called king of DVB card manufacturers! Hope this is a software issue, or at least we can adopt a quasi-ProgDVB approach here to cover whatever might be wrong. I'm just grabbing the TransEdit test version you prepared -- will report my findings here shortly. Yet again, thanks for your great efforts. Quote Link to comment
amirhs Posted April 24, 2011 Author Share Posted April 24, 2011 I just tried the new TransEdit test version, and should say that the so-called troublesome transponders are properly treated only if I use PAT timeout values like 20000 or 30000. With a value like 10000 TransEdit almost always fails to generate a transponder lock for troublesome ones. I've tried some transponders on Hotbird and my famous 11010/11013 ones on Eurobird 2 at 25.5º East with the same results -- the latter transponder is always ignored unless I use 20000 or 30000 values. I've also modified TransEdit settings according to your instructions -- ticked "Always scan with auto FEC detection." However, PAT attempts in the Hardware tab is left at "0" -- the default value. Does modifying it to "1" or "2" help with smaller PAT timeout values? As before, higher values tend to extend the scanning time especially in satellites which have a good number of inactive transponders. One more comment: With the new TransEdit version -- and even with high PAT timeout values -- the Scanner window has become much more stable in that it never enters that half-active state till scanning is done. Now I can always check what it's doing without getting the "TransEdit scanner is not responding" message. Quote Link to comment
amirhs Posted April 24, 2011 Author Share Posted April 24, 2011 Griga, in case one of those QBox II or QBox 3 USB cards is still available there, would you mind testing these troublesome transponders with them, especially with the new QBox 3? I'm curious to know how they handle this circumstance, or if they're able to work with a weak transponder like Hotbird's 12303 V. I'm trying to get my hands on a Prof 7500 USB card to test this, but I'm not sure if or when I can get it -- DVB cards -- and satellite receivers in general -- cannot be sold or exchanged easily here -- they're forbidden by the government but everyone owns them! Quote Link to comment
Griga Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 in case one of those QBox II or QBox 3 USB cards is still available there, would you mind testing these troublesome transponders with them I have no QBox. But be sure that it will show other issues. Every DVB device has its advantages and disadvantages, depending on the surrounding setup, the software that uses it, the PC and its mainboard/chipset, the outdoor equipment, user demands, etc. Finding a suitable device is a gamble. To come to a conclusion: - The TechniSat software (Setup4PC) is affected by the problem. I've tested it. - Three different interfaces for accessing the SkyStar USB HD are affected (BDA, the official TechniSat interface for accessing the WDM driver and an alternative way of communicating with the driver more directly) - Channel switching in DVBViewer is affected - I've tried switching between two radio channels, one on a "difficult" Hotbird transponder, the other one on a problematic Astra 19° East transponder. Sometimes it took more than 10 seconds until playback started. Same thing with TV channels here. - You say ProgDVB is not affected. Maybe it is using its own interface for accessing the driver, don't know. At least they did something like that in the past, in order to circumvent TechniSat DiSEqC restrictions (TechniSat doesn't want the SkyStar 2 and SkyStar S2 PCI to be used with a motor, because it may cause damage). In a nutshell: Everything that is using interfaces approved by TechniSat is affected, as far as I can see. So there is nothing more that I can do now, except sending a report to TechniSat. Let's see what comes out of it... anyway, I will upload a new TransEdit full version 3.7.2 to the members area soon. It will contain the enhancements resulting from this thread. Quote Link to comment
amirhs Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 Thanks, Griga, for the comprehensive analysis of the issue. Quite incidentally, a couple of hours ago I also noticed the tuning issue you mentioned upon switching to a radio channel located on a problematic transponder -- it takes about 12 seconds for playback to start. Strangely enough, TV channels on the same transponder aren't affected. My sincere hope is that TechniSat introduce a new driver package to take care of this annoying issue soon now that it can be easily duplicated via various interfaces. Quote Link to comment
Griga Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Just one more question: What is your dish size? Quote Link to comment
amirhs Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 Griga, I use 4 90cm dishes. One is dedicated to Hotbird, one to Eutelsat W3A, one to Nilesat/AtlanticBird 4A, and the last to Badr/Eurobird 2. Quote Link to comment
Griga Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Griga, I use 4 90cm dishes. Wow! I have only two small dishes. One 55 cm with Invacom twin LNB pointing to Astra 19° East, and a 45 cm TechniSat Multytenne with a special LNB for receiving Astra 19/23/28° East and Hotbird. Both at ground level in the garden. When reception gets bad, I have to go out and cut the bushes back. But the LNBs are more safe this way, because my cat can take care of them. Recently my neighbours had problems with damaged LNBs. They got hacked by woodpeckers. Trees and birds are the natural enemies of satellite reception Since small dishes don't focus so well and are more prone to disturbances by other satellite positions, I was wondering if the issue could be a small-dish-problem. But obviously it isn't. I've just written a mail to TechniSat, and released a new TransEdit version. See here: http://www.DVBViewer.tv/forum/topic/2745-transedit/page__view__findpost__p__334856 Quote Link to comment
amirhs Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 You're ultra-quick, Griga! I'm using TransEdit 3.72 now, and regardless of TechniSat's response -- which I hope is at least half-quick as yours to help with the delayed tuning/playback, it well takes care of the scanning portion of the problem. TransEdit and Audio Recorder are my favorite plugins! BTW, my dishes are on the roof and since the building in which I live overshadows surrounding houses, I get very strong signals. I love your accessible ground-bound setup, though, as it allows nimble readjustments if needed. I'm thinking of replacing my setup with a Premium 3000 motor and a single 90cm offset dish for use with SkyStar USB HD. But, knowing SkyStar's 450 mA power limit, I first have to determine that motor's power consumption -- it's not listed in its specs. I'm paranoid, you know! Quote Link to comment
amirhs Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 Griga, does the PAT Timeout value setting also work with BDA drivers? I want to switch to BDA, but thought I'd ask you first. Quote Link to comment
Griga Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 It does. It works independently from any hardware, driver, tuner type etc. PAT means Program Allocation Table. It is a broadcasted basic service information table. Without it no scan results. Read more about it here: http://www.DVBViewer.com/griga/TransEdit%20E/SettingsWindow.html#Scanner2 Quote Link to comment
amirhs Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 Thanks both for the info and for the useful link. It always feels good to be on the safe side! Quote Link to comment
amirhs Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 Hi Griga, Have you received any replies from TechniSat regarding this important scanning/tuning issue, and the type or timing of the fix they want to implement? Have they acknowledged the presence of such a bug after your Monday's mail, to begin with? I'm finding the tuning problem really annoying. Quote Link to comment
Griga Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 No reply yet. I guess they guy is on Easter holidays. Quote Link to comment
amirhs Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 OK, so please keep me -- and everybody who might be interested in this -- updated as to TechniSat's response. And what an extended holiday! Quote Link to comment
Griga Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 The TechniSat staff member is back from vacation. He has confirmed the SkyStar USB HD issue. It will most likely be fixed by a driver update. I'll let you know as soon as it is available. Quote Link to comment
amirhs Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Mega thanks, Griga, for diligently looking into this issue. I'm glad the thread has resulted in the recognition of the problem by TechniSat. Looking forward to getting the drivers. Quote Link to comment
Griga Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 @amirhs: Please check your personal messages. There is something you may want to test... Quote Link to comment
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