CI+ Specification

[Tony]

Question to TechniSat:

Your PC products (e.g. CableStar HD 2, CableStar Combo HD CI) are not compatible with the new CI+ specification, but our TV provider (UPC Czech Rep.) available SMiT Conax chipset pairing CI+ CAM (CONAX CAS7) only now. I myself still use Technisat CAM but the problem is a general.

Is there any solution to the problem?

 

Answer:

Our PC products will not get an update due to various license conditions in relation to the use of CI+.

I hope this information will help you.

[alexdonc]

The answer still stands?

 

Because I am in the same situation here in Bucharest (Romania) for UPC. They are also using CI+ and I only get FTC with my CableStar HD2. I only guess it should be a matter of plugin for the software to get the module up and running. Why not implement into DVBViewer as a third party add-on or something like that? I would gladly pay for it anytime only to enjoy my full UPC subscription.

 

Any chance?

[LocalHolgi]

I doubt that TechniSat is reading this and well the CI+ standard exclude PC devices, same as stb's with the ability to record the transmissions.

[Wuhtzu]

I doubt that TechniSat is reading this and well the CI+ standard exclude PC devices, same as stb's with the ability to record the transmissions.

 

So media centers with tuner cards, ci modules and cams are a thing of the past? No reason to pursue this anymore if you have a sattelite provide which uses CI+?

 

I have a Digital Devices Cine S2 v6 dual tuner card (http://shop.digital-devices.de/epages/62357162.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/62357162/Products/091201) and a Digital Devices CI expansion module (http://shop.digital-devices.de/epages/62357162.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/62357162/Products/092003). I use it with this cam http://wuhtzu.dk/random/cam_back.jpg http://wuhtzu.dk/random/cam_front.jpg and DVBViewer to decrypt pay channels from Canal Digital in Denmark. The CAM is CI+ and if I take an old non-CI+ CAM I am unable to decrypt most of their HD channels. So many of their channels is already CI+ encrypted and a CI+ cam is needed to decrypt them. This works with my Cine S2 setup. So how does this "CI+ standard exclude PC devices" fit into this?

[Wuhtzu]

same as stb's with the ability to record the transmissions.

 

I also find this strange. Is it all of the sudden prohibitted by the content provides to record their content? Almost all new TV, new set top boxes and so on have the ability to record, pause live television (by recording and later playing back)?

[Wuhtzu]

So I have found the answer to my own two questions by talking to a technically competent person at STRONG (the manufacturer of CAMs for Canal Digital)

 

I doubt that TechniSat is reading this and well the CI+ standard exclude PC devices, same as stb's with the ability to record the transmissions.

So media centers with tuner cards, ci modules and cams are a thing of the past? No reason to pursue this anymore if you have a sattelite provide which uses CI+?

 

I have a Digital Devices Cine S2 v6 dual tuner card (http://shop.digital-devices.de/epages/62357162.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/62357162/Products/091201) and a Digital Devices CI expansion module (http://shop.digital-devices.de/epages/62357162.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/62357162/Products/092003). I use it with this cam http://wuhtzu.dk/random/cam_back.jpg http://wuhtzu.dk/random/cam_front.jpg and DVBViewer to decrypt pay channels from Canal Digital in Denmark. The CAM is CI+ and if I take an old non-CI+ CAM I am unable to decrypt most of their HD channels. So many of their channels is already CI+ encrypted and a CI+ cam is needed to decrypt them. This works with my Cine S2 setup. So how does this "CI+ standard exclude PC devices" fit into this?

 

The reason why the above setup works for me in Denmark with Canal Digital is because Canal Digital do not (yet) pair the CAM and the TV/SetTopBox. At the moment only the subscription card is paired with the CAM and that is why the CAM can be placed into any compatible device, for examply my Cine S2 tuner card. When and if Canal Digital decides to pair CAM and TV the above setup will stop working. At that point only one of two things will get things working again:

#1: The content provider (Canal Digital in my case) approves one or more tuner cards for use with their CAMs. Thhen the CAM will simply be paired with the tuner card just like it is paired with a TV.

#2: Somehow cheating the pairing mechanism. I suppose it is possible through hardware and software (modifications) to make a tuner card present it self as a TV with a given pairing id.

 

 

same as stb's with the ability to record the transmissions.

I also find this strange. Is it all of the sudden prohibitted by the content provides to record their content? Almost all new TV, new set top boxes and so on have the ability to record, pause live television (by recording and later playing back)?

Since CI+ is only a scheme to ensure encryption further along the chain of equipment than the old CI standard there is nothing which prohibits set top boxes or tv's from recording. They just have to be paired with the CAM properly. Of course content provides could refuse to pair their CAMs to STBs and TVs which allow recording, but that would be madness.

[Derrick]

..if it's working it's not CI+ but a legacy mode

[Wuhtzu]

..if it's working it's not CI+ but a legacy mode

 

CI+ is backwards compatible with CI in terms of old equipment using newer CAMs. So that sounds resonable.

 

But how would you explain that I need the new CI+ CAM to decrypt my Canal Digital HD Channels? My old CI CAM works with non-HD channels, but not with HD channels. Is that just some other technical differens between the CI+ and CI cams?

[hurda7]

No, it's a decision made by the broadcasters. They don't want people to record stuff or skip commercials, and to accomplish this they bait the people with the artificial necessity of CI+ for HDTV.

[Wuhtzu]

No, it's a decision made by the broadcasters. They don't want people to record stuff or skip commercials, and to accomplish this they bait the people with the artificial necessity of CI+ for HDTV.

 

Which post is your reply targeted?

 

Because of course CI, CI+ and any other protection system is something the content providers and/or broadcasters have commisioned because they do not want people to skip commercial etc.

 

But your "no" be intended to tell me (or someone else) that some statement I've made is incorrect. And I am wondering what statement that is

[hurda7]

It's a reply to the last paragraph. It's technically not required to use CI+ for HD-material, most broadcasters just choose to use it for those streams.

[Wuhtzu]

I have retested my old CI-cam (not CI+) and it works for receiving HD channels as well as SD channels. That voids my previous statement about the CI+ cam being needed to view the HD channels. E.g. this statement:

But how would you explain that I need the new CI+ CAM to decrypt my Canal Digital HD Channels? My old CI CAM works with non-HD channels, but not with HD channels. Is that just some other technical differens between the CI+ and CI cams?

 

The old CI-cam however gives me trouble changing channels. The current channels freezes if I try to change channel, but after a restart of DVBViewer the channel I tried to change to is perfectly viewable.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Wuhtzu

[alexdonc]

OK. Than let's recap. My cable operator provides CI+ modules and of course they are paired with cards inside. So there is no question of using an alternate CI+ CAM, just to plug it into the CAM reader of the tuner. Will DVBViewer be able see it?

[Derrick]

nope