Basic Video Quality / Deinterlacing

[GateKeeper]

Hello.

 

After continously having Problems regarding deinterlacing with my TE-Edition of DVBViewer I today bought the Full-Version . Unfortunately the problem persists with the new version of DVBViewer. Although I extensively worked with progressive as well as interlaced video-formats on a user-level earlier, i never experienced such problems in display-quality . My experience was, that developers always tried to shield the user from problems with video-display, either by avoiding the use of interlaced material alltogeter or (as most common) by standardly integrating a high-quality deinterlacer into the display process . For optimal visual performance is an expected feature in high-level-video-editing and at least todays consumer-display i found it EXTREMELY disturbing to argue with such problems during my daily DVBViewer usage .

 

Normally there is no need to leech other peoples time and experience via forum-requests just to ensure a commercial applications core functionality . For my part, the full version of DVBViewer proved this assumption wrong, as it provides poor visual quality (missing deinterlacing) after the default installation. I believe that my system is of common configuration, thus, although i am no expert in computer programming , in this case I am not willing to accept what appears to be the developers standard-arguments: Conflicting-Environment / Misconfiguration !

 

My system-profile is as follows:

 

AMD 1800+

Geforce 4 MX

384 MB Ram

Audigy 2 Player

PCI-Network-Adapter

Technisat SkyStar 2 Card

Windows 98 SE

DirectX 9.0c

Intervideo WinDVD 5.35

Nero Burning Rome 6.3

 

The systems only purpose is to display DVD-Video as well as Digital-TV. It did very well for DVD-Video ever since .

 

The visual Problem en detail:

Horizontal Movements produce a horizontal stripe-pattern in areas of high contrast, mostly edges-in-display. The faster the movement, the stronger the effect. I believe this can only be a deinterlacing Problem. Channel switching, Zooming and Audio works.

 

What i tried:

- Switching around with the video-options in the options-panel. Nearly all settings work, but the deinterlacing-problem persists .

- Searching for "deinterlacing" in this forum and reading the results. "deinterlacing" was mentioned a lot, but the posts were about other problems no one provided a consistent lamer-walkthrough of some kind for getting deinterlacing to work!

- Several time-consuming COMPLETE SYSTEM-REINSTALLATIONS each one including the setup of another DVBViewer-Version in an absolute virgin Software-Environment. (TE-Edition on CD (1.9x)and DVBViewer Pro 2.2RC1 and DVBViewer Pro 2.3beta - this is my current installation)

 

Additional Information:

Someone in this forum advised all newbie-posters to include System-Information created by a little program(LogMPEGDEcoder). I hereby provide this information for my system. TEXTFILE-OUTPUT of LogMPEGDEcoder was:

 

MPEG2 Video Decoders:

---------------------

InterVideo Video Decoder: 00700000

 

MPEG Audio Decoders:

---------------------

MPEG Audio Decoder: 03680001

InterVideo Audio Decoder: 00700000

Nero Digital Audio Decoder: 00600000

 

My Request:

It would be very helpful if someone could provide me with a kind of step-by-step list with suggestions on how to proceed elminating the deinterlacing-problem. I believe that there are others like me who then can find this list by forum-search.

[Griga]

Unfortunately InterVideo only provides deinterlacing for WinDVD. For other apps, that use the InterVideo Video Decoder, it has to be activated in the Windows registry.

 

The following key must be created, if not present:

 

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\InterVideo\Common\VideoDec

 

Now, in this key, create the following DWord entries

 

DXVA

HWMC

 

and set them to 1. They will let the InterVideo Decoder use hardware acceleration for decoding, if the graphics card provides it.

 

Additionally create (as DWord value)

 

DDBOB

BOBWEAVE

 

These are responsible for deinterlacing. Set them to 1 or 0, and try, which setting gives the best result..

 

For my part, the full version of DVBViewer proved this assumption wrong, as it provides poor visual quality (missing deinterlacing) after the default installation

 

As you may have noticed: You've only payed 15 Euro for the DVBViewer Pro. It doesn't provide its own video decoder (like InterVideo does), which would make it quite easy to provide "clean" deinterlacing default settings. On the other side, however, you'd have to pay for it, due to licence fees.

 

So accept it, or buy something more expensive... you'll always have to pay, with money, or by messing around with the Windows registry.

 

As far as it concerns the TE version: Go to TechniSat and complain...

[GateKeeper]

Thank you very much, Griga!

 

Your answer is perfectly tailored to fit my needs: Less technobabble and absolutely step-driven. I am going to implement the modifications you suggested ASAP.

 

Of course 15,42 € (via Paypal) is not much, but when advertising your offer you must not ignore the simple customer (who is no Windows-Media-architecture-expert): I did not know that...

 

1. decoders are generally separated from certain DVBViewer / certain Apps.

2. DVBViewer lacks the (obviously essential) decoder

3. i could use another decoder (which i already possess) for DVBViewer

 

I did not know these facts i know now!

 

My Decision would have been directed by the known. If i had known:

 

only 1. : I would not have bought DVBViewer without further investigation

only 2. : I would not have bought DVBViewer

only 3. : I would have bought DVBViewer

1. & 2. : I would not have bought DVBViewer

1. & 3. : I would have bought DVBViewer

2. & 3. : I would have bought DVBViewer

 

What i mean is: Your advertising lacks essential usability information - My guess is a lot of people give up before they find a solution for this simple problem. They may even feel betrayed by a bad piece of software, which - as i see now - DVBViewer really is not. You wont buy a car without engine... well, everybody knows there usually is an engine inside. You programming-experts tend to assume we are all nerds which is definitely false.

[Griga]

DVBViewer lacks the (obviously essential) decoder

 

A video decoder is installed with the TechniSat Software - up to driver 4.2.11 the DVD Express (which doesn't show up in your list), now Sonic. So it can be assumed that on every PC with a TechniSat card there is at least one suitable video decoder.

 

Nevertheless, I don't like the way TechniSat handles it:

 

- The DVD Express is installed without activating deinterlacing in the registry - similar procedure as above.

 

- The new Sonic Decoder is only included on CD, not in the download version. People, who uninstall the previous version and install the 4.3 stuff, lose the DVD Express Video Decoder, without any hint or warning.

 

However, most people have some DVD software (like InterVideo/WinDVD), which provides a MPEG video decoder.

 

You programming-experts tend to assume we are all nerds

 

Running multimedia stuff on a highly sophisticated multi-purpose machine can't be as simple as dealing with common consumer electronics (which sometimes are already complicated enough ). People want more and more features, and want to enjoy all the possibilties and freedom provided by a PC (like watching and recording HDTV without having to buy extremely expensive hardware), but a lot of people don't accept the other side - learning how to handle it. They even don't read the DVBViewer manual... they pay 15 Euro, expecting that - at this price - everything is done for them.

 

Spend some time with reading different multimedia boards in the web... trouble wherever you go.

 

So buy a TV set and a hard disk recorder, and you'll never get any trouble with deinterlacing, since TV sets (in contrast to PC monitors) are constructed for displaying interlaced video. You'll never have to deal with configuring video decoders and to bother about the pitfalls of the MS DirectShow architecture, which allows app A to stumble across the components of app B. Of course, you'll have to live with some limitations - you're just a consumer.

 

Or stick to TV on a PC (which is still in its infancy, or better: in its arkward age), and you'll become a "nerd", if you want it or not. You'll become a pioneer, an adventurer. Take your choice....

[Klausing]

buy a TV set and a hard disk recorder ...

If someone would pay the half of this price for DVBViewer+SS2 i belive he could build a Viewer with all needed decoders and settings. But who yould pay for this.

Nevertheless, I don't like the way TechniSat handles it:

i completely agree.

Take your choice....

i agree again !!!

 

Steffen

[adrenalin]

This topic was very useful for me but I have some more questions.

 

1: If I hook my PC to a DLP projector isnt it deinterlaced?

2: In Elecard Video Decoder there properties there is an option for deinterlacing, doesnt it work without registry?

3: How can I undertstand if a codec or decoder is registered?

4: where do we create that HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software...

 

Please help me on this... thank you

[Guest Oliver]

1. That depends on the decoder.

2. Yes, most decoders offer this functionality, for example Elecard, NVIDIA and Cyberlink.

3. You can have a look with the Radlight Filtermanager (service center).

4. With regedit. Go to the start menu, select "execute" and type regedit.

 

Bye

[adrenalin]

You have been very helpful. Thank you... Is it the same when watching DVD with WinDVD?

And if I use Elecard and select Deinterlace does PC outputs progressive via VGA?

Also what is hardware mode? If I choose hardware mode does the software use video card for what?

 

Last questions I hope.. thank you

[Guest Oliver]

Is it the same when watching DVD with WinDVD?

No, in this case you can enable deinterlacing within the program.

 

And if I use Elecard and select Deinterlace does PC outputs progressive via VGA?

I'm not sure about this (never tried) but it should be deinterlaced.

 

Also what is hardware mode? If I choose hardware mode does the software use video card for what?

This means MPEG2 acceleration. Most modern graphics cards provice IDCT, that means, the card - and not the CPU - does the most work in decoding MPEG2.

 

Bye

[Derrick]

>..does PC outputs progressive via VGA?

 

 

..yep, always

[adrenalin]

So if PC output via VGA is progressive what differance deinterlacing decoder mode can make?

 

Thanks

[Gioxy]

The difference is that the VGA output is nowadays normally not interlaced (to display without "flickering"; in the past the video card had also a interlaced mode to drive some cheap HiRes VDU...), while many MPEG2 streams (the sat video stream is a particular subset of it) was created to be viewed on normal TV set, whose video input is (for historical reasons) always interlaced (50Hz in Europe and others<-> 60Hz in USA and others)

There are, of course, some exceptions, e.g. those High-end TV sets that have a specifical progressive input or those that have some special additional circuitry to improve the video viewing...

 

So, also if you use a progressive channel but the souce video stream was interlaced from the source, you however need deinterlacing to view flickerfree...

 

But you will totally resolve this problem if you succeed in activate the hardware acceleration of your card...

 

Bye

 

Gioxy

[Derrick]

How can hardware acc. resolve the interlacing problem? Imho it still needs deinterlacing processing.

 

@adrenalin, outputs to computer monitors are always progressive. But when the content is interlaced the odd and even lines of the produced full frames are not aligned because they stem from different epochs.

[adrenalin]

There is a hardware mode in DVBViewer, this is the hardware acceleration you mention I think. I will try this, thank you.

[Derrick]

What hardware mode? This term is usually used for cards with hardware mpeg decoder. The DVBViewer is only (at least for the time being ) for the skystar2. This card doesn't have a mpeg decoder.

[Gioxy]

@Derrick

 

Sorry, I was imprecise; I wanted to refer to all the registry's "additional" string that Griga mentioned up (that often are the only way to obtain the best from the own video card...)

 

Gioxy

[adrenalin]

for example in DVBDream there are two modes, one Hardware mode, the other software mode. In hardware mode you can sellect "hardwarebob" and also adjust brightness contrast... etc.