TransEdit doesn't work with MPLP stream

[vramor]

TransEdit doesn't analyze TS file which containes the record of T2-MI transport stream with multiple PLP (I have the one with 4 PLP). Meanwhile 4T2 Content-Analyser does that very well. I don't think that this is a bug but a feature or the lack of functionality. I suppose that TransEdit does not provide the proper Channellist for the DVBViewer while TS with MPLP is broadcasting. Hope that this feature can be fixed in future. Is it possible?

[Derrick]

Probably a misunderstanding.. TransEdit analyses transport streams according to ISO 13818-1 provided at the output of a dvb device but not at physical layers of a dvb modulation scheme.

[vramor]

Probably a misunderstanding.. TransEdit analyses transport streams according to ISO 13818-1 provided at the output of a dvb device but not at physical layers of a dvb modulation scheme.

I mean TS according to ISO 13818-1 provided at the output of DVB-T2 device.

[Derrick]

Pls. upload a sample of a continuous TS_recording.

[Griga]

Making it work would require at least two things:

 

- A DVB-T2 device with a driver that supports the according BDA interfaces. One of them is documented here. However, it is a interface of the MS Network Provider Filter, and I would rather use the underlying IBDA_DigitalDemodulator3 interface exposed by the driver. It is not mentioned on msdn, but can only be found in the MS header files.

 

- A dedicated and experienced user that does all the testing. I can't receive such streams.

 

I guess the PhysicalLayerPipeIdVal resp. pPLPNumber parameter that can be set with these interfaces is supposed to select one of the transport streams, and it's up to the hardware or driver to do the filtering... but I wonder how to get hold of these IDs. AFAIK the NIT resp.T2_delivery_system_descriptors contain PLPIDs, but they are pretty useless if one needs to know them for being able to read them

[vramor]

Pls. upload a sample of a continuous TS_recording.

Here you are!

http://yadi.sk/d/4zBOQiJ25SmTI

This is the contents of TS as a whole:

http://ipic.su/img/img7/fs/MPLP_10_4PLPb.1369310504.jpg

This is the contents of the PLP 0

http://ipic.su/img/img7/fs/MPLP_10_PLP0b.1369310741.jpg

This is the content of the PLP 1:

http://ipic.su/img/img7/fs/MPLP_10_PLP1b.1369310853.jpg

This is the content of the PLP 2

http://ipic.su/img/img7/fs/MPLP_10_PLP2b.1369310950.jpg

This is the content of the PLP 3

http://ipic.su/img/img7/fs/MPLP_10_PLP3b.1369310988.jpg

Edited June 3, 2013 by vramor

[vramor]

Making it work would require at least two things:

 

- A DVB-T2 device with a driver that supports the according BDA interfaces.

- A dedicated and experienced user that does all the testing. I can't receive such streams.

First of all I'd like the TransEdit could analyze TS file containig multiple PLP. There is no need BDA driver or something like that, IMHO.

[Griga]

There is no need BDA driver or something like that, IMHO.

 

No go without an API allowing to control the whole thing.

[Derrick]

Thanks a lot, but this is much more than a sample. I won't download 1000MB for nothing IMHO this is not a single, continuous multiplex but a collection of different muxes each with it`s own SI. Transedit only can handle a filtered single mux. The selection has to be done before the stream reaches transedit. I can't receive such transmissions but imho it's similar to DVB-S2_MIS. There the selections has to be done at hardware level (e.g. by crazyscan), before BDA_DVB_applications like DVBViewer or tsreader can read the filtered streams.

 

 

[vramor]

IMHO this is not a single, continuous multiplex but a collection of different muxes each with it`s own SI.

 

 

This is a single continuous multiplex broadcasted in DVB-T2 mode B, i.e. with multple PLP. In this case every PLP has the same parameters except PLP number, Besides this TS is T2-MI. I guess that the analysis of such TS is a rather difficult and new task. This is a concept of MPLP:

Edited June 3, 2013 by vramor

[Derrick]

ok, try again with a file < 100MB

[Griga]

I won't download 1000MB for nothing

 

That's what is inside. No idea what to do with it.

[vramor]

 

That's what is inside. No idea what to do with it.

The same things which the ABC 4T2 Content-Analyser does. You can see the results (not all!) on my previous post (JPG-files).

Edited June 3, 2013 by vramor

[vramor]

ok, try again with a file < 100MB

Here you are!

http://yadi.sk/d/wWzO641k5TXvy

[Derrick]

yes, the stream is continuous But there's nothing inside with which transedit can detect and analyse the "PLP" content. Apparently everything is encapsulated inside private PES with PID 0x1000.

[Griga]

The same things which the ABC 4T2 Content-Analyser does. You can see the results (not all!) on my previous post (JPG-files).

 

Yes, nice pictures They show results, but not how to get there.

 

You see, I have no DVB-T2 device, I can't receive any DVB-T2 transponders im my region, I can't test or check MPLP in practice, I have no information where and how the data relevant for MPLP support can be read or obtained by software... and ATM I have no time for lengthy researches that could at least clarify the theoretical part (maybe I'll come to it later...). So without someone who can tell me exactly what has to be done nothing will happen.

[vramor]

 

... I have no DVB-T2 device, I can't receive any DVB-T2 transponders im my region, I can't test or check MPLP in practice

You are a very happy man

DVB-T2 Mode B with 4 MPLP is the standard for terrestrial TV broadcast that was accepted in Russia.

[Griga]

In the meantime I found some time to look into the DVB-T2 specifications, and I did some researches on this topic. The first goal is to make DVB-T2 MPLP broadcasts available in TransEdit and DVBViewer by adding the necessary extensions to the hardware handling, channellist data etc. More sophisticated analyzer functions may come later.

 

As I've found out, there are three interfaces for handling MPLP on the driver level:

 

- A general BDA interface defined by Microsoft. It requires Windows 7 or later and only allows to select a PLP ID, nothing more. It is unknown which DVB-T2 device drivers are supporting this interface (if at all).

 

- Vendor-specific interfaces defined by DVBSky and TBS, both allowing to select a PLP ID and to query the demodulator for available PLP IDs.

 

However, testers who are are able to receive MPLP broadcasts with a DVB-T2 device will be needed . Please let me know if you are able to support development in this way.

 

@vramor: How did you record the sample? With TransEdit? By using which device?

[CrazyCat69]

MultiPLP is multistream for DVB-T2/C2. Similar to Multiple Input Streams for DVB-S2. So you can add support unified multistream support for DVB-S2,T2,C2. Microsoft interface very generic and bad documented. Better use vendor-specific interface for selection substream and retrieve substream id list. This very easy, but you need extend channel info with substream id.

 

P.S. T2-MI is intermediate data for DVB-T2 modulator (DVB-T2 frames and control info incapsulated in DVB TS and distributed over sat or ip). Required for better SFN support and centralized control DVB-T2 network.

[Griga]

Thanks for clarification!

[vramor]

In the meantime I found some time to look into the DVB-T2 specifications, and I did some researches on this topic. The first goal is to make DVB-T2 MPLP broadcasts available in TransEdit and DVBViewer by adding the necessary extensions to the hardware handling, channellist data etc. More sophisticated analyzer functions may come later.

 

As I've found out, there are three interfaces for handling MPLP on the driver level:

 

- A general BDA interface defined by Microsoft. It requires Windows 7 or later and only allows to select a PLP ID, nothing more. It is unknown which DVB-T2 device drivers are supporting this interface (if at all).

 

- Vendor-specific interfaces defined by DVBSky and TBS, both allowing to select a PLP ID and to query the demodulator for available PLP IDs.

 

However, testers will be needed who are are able to receive MPLP broadcasts with a DVB-T2 device. Please let me know if you are able to support development in this way.

 

@vramor: How did you record the sample? With TransEdit? By using which device?

These samples were recorded with DTU-245 DekTec from ASI output DVB-S2 IRD Scopus 2900 tuned in Yamal-300K 90E 4105.740 MHz (8PSK, 3/4, R, SR=14.941 Mbps, Rinf=33.29 Mbps).

[Derrick]

In the meantime we did some research as well The topic is somewhat misleading. What you provided is a T2-MI stream. It is meant for distributing the necessary signals for DVB-T2 transmitters but will never be seen by DVB-T2 devices. MI stands for modulator interface according to ETSI TS 102 773 and has nothing to do with MPLP as such defined by the DVB-T2 standard. There are many different communication standards and TransEdit only covers the standards relating to the Transport Stream. That's why you'll get a correct analysis of your file. It's good to know that there are special analysers which can disassemble M2-T2 but this is way out of scope for TransEdit

 

btw, there's no need anymore for exotic satellite positions and/or equipment to playback live streams packed into T2-MI

 

http://rickcaylor.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1278660230&postcount=6

[vramor]

...TransEdit only covers the standards relating to the Transport Stream.

OK! Do you think that DVB-T2 mode B transport stream (i.e. with multiple PLP) does meet DVB standards?

[Griga]

Do you think that DVB-T2 mode B transport stream (i.e. with multiple PLP) does meet DVB standards?

 

It does. Work is in progress. As already mentioned here testers are needed, particularly users who are receiving MPLP with a DVBSky or TBS DVB-T2 device.

[vramor]

 

It does. Work is in progress. As already mentioned here testers are needed, particularly users who are receiving MPLP with a DVBSky or TBS DVB-T2 device.

What's new? We are broiling with impatience ;-)

[EnoSat]

Known T2-MI transponders from 90 East ~ 5 West

 

90E - 4 transponders in C band (T2-MI without MIS)

55E - 2 transponders in Ku band (T2-MI without MIS)

49E - 3 transponders in C band (T2-MI without MIS)

39E - 1 transponder in Ku band (T2-MI without MIS)

33E - 2 transponders in Ku band (T2-MI with MIS)

5W - 1 transponders in Ku band (T2-MI with MIS)

[Griga]

TransEdit 4.0.3 now supports MPLP with DVBSky and TBS DVB-T2 tuners. If you own such devices and have an opportunity to receive MPLP transponders, please try and let me know how it works.

 

Please note: Sorry, TransEdit 4.0.3 still doesn't handle T2-MI transport streams broadcasted via satellite. Implementing it is quite time-consuming and does not have a high priority. Please understand that there are a lot of other things to do after Lars has left this world.

[vramor]

Thank you for your time and attention. Unfortunately I cannot try TransEdit with the real DVB-T2 MPLP ethereal stream right now, but I've noticed all the new features concerning Substream scanning. Hope my friends can give it a try and I'll let you know about results. I am waiting patiently new TransEdit versions which can handle files with T2-MI MPLP streams.

[Antonio]

TBS6281 has support MPLP stream??? (DVBViewer Pro/Ge, TransEdit).