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Pcsl

DVBViewer not compatible with ISDB-T?

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Pcsl

I'm in Japan at this moment and was thinking about ordering DVBViewer as I tried the demo a few times and really liked it all the time.

 

Unfortunately, my recently acquired TV ISDB-T tuner Digibest ISDB-T IT9175 BDA (https://www.keian.co.jp/products/ktv-fsmini/), is detected by the standard software that comes with it (buggy as hell) but DVBViewer says that there is not atacched device.

 

So, there is any reason why it won't work or any way to make it work?

 

Thank you!

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Griga

DVBViewer does not support ISDB-T explicitely. BDA Drivers for ISDB-T devices that are known to work with DVBViewer (mostly in South America) let applications believe that they are dealing with a DVB-T tuner,  thus being compatible with European software.

 

However, that may be different with devices for the Japanese market. The driver probably exposes a true ISDB-T tuner that doesn't work with DVBViewer.

 

Some time ago I've prepared ISDB-T support in the TransEdit scanner tool, but without any opportunity to test it it here in Germany. It maps ISDB-T to DVB-T on the application level. We can try to make it work (without any guarantee for success) and transfer it to DVBViewer, but before we start please take note of the following facts:

  • DVBViewer provides a default ISDB-T transponder (frequency) list for scanning. TransEdit will load it automatically, but I don't know if it is suitable in your case. Maybe you will have to modify it, which means, you need to know the frequencies that are used in Japan.
  • Most likely encrypted channels (requiring the Japan Multi 2 CA-System mentioned here) can't be played, except if decryption is transparently performed by the hardware/driver, so that the software doesn't need to handle it. Implementing support for it is beyond our possibilities.

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Pcsl
16 hours ago, Griga said:

DVBViewer does not support ISDB-T explicitely. BDA Drivers for ISDB-T devices that are known to work with DVBViewer (mostly in South America) let applications believe that they are dealing with a DVB-T tuner,  thus being compatible with European software.

 

However, that may be different with devices for the Japanese market. The driver probably exposes a true ISDB-T tuner that doesn't work with DVBViewer.

 

Some time ago I've prepared ISDB-T support in the TransEdit scanner tool, but without any opportunity to test it it here in Germany. It maps ISDB-T to DVB-T on the application level. We can try to make it work (without any guarantee for success) and transfer it to DVBViewer, but before we start please take note of the following facts:

  • DVBViewer provides a default ISDB-T transponder (frequency) list for scanning. TransEdit will load it automatically, but I don't know if it is suitable in your case. Maybe you will have to modify it, which means, you need to know the frequencies that are used in Japan.
  • Most likely encrypted channels (requiring the Japan Multi 2 CA-System mentioned here) can't be played, except if decryption is transparently performed by the hardware/driver, so that the software doesn't need to handle it. Implementing support for it is beyond our possibilities.

 

I understand why it can be difficult to make it work but I would love to try to make it work using TransEdit if you are willing to do so.

So please, let me know if we can try to test that feature you were working on.

 

Thank you so much!

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Griga

Transedit test version attached. Please perform the following steps:

  1. Store TransEdit_Test.exe in the DVBViewer installation folder (where DVBViewerDemo.exe is).
  2. Lauch TransEdit_Test.exe. Go to Settings -> Hardware. See if your device appears in the device list.
  3. Click "Detect Devices" in any case. Steps 4 to 6 only make sense if your device has been detected.
  4. Go back to the main windows. Select the "ISDB-T" transponder list on the left side.
  5. If frequencies used in Japan are known: Check if they are contained in the frequency list on the right side. If not, enter them in the input are on the right side, set the bandwidth to 6 and click "Add" for each input.
  6. If a frequency is known to deliver a signal, select it and click "Scan Selected". If no active frequencies are known, click "Scan All". Both command will open the scanner window that shows found channels (if you are lucky).
  7. In any case: Select Info -> Configuration folder (opens an Explorer window). It should contain a log file TransEdit_Test.txt. Please attach it here.

You can find more information about TransEdit here. However, the test version is restricted and does not provide the full functionality.

 

<attachment removed>

Edited by Griga

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Pcsl

Thank you for your help Griga.

It seems the device it's not detected at all. Here you have the log.

TransEdit_Test.txt

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Griga

Not a very promising result. ;) The log file shows that the driver exposes two hardware components:

 

Node GUID: {71985F4C-1CA1-11D3-9CC8-00C04F7971E0}

 

This GUID (Global Unique Identifier) indicates KSNODE_BDA_RF_TUNER (RF = Radio Frequency), which means analog input. It is not usable in DVBViewer and far away from what we want. As second component I expected KSNODE_BDA_ISDB_T_DEMODULATOR, which TransEdit would have detected. However, there is an unknown node type:

 

Node GUID: {2B0700F0-2091-4BFD-B49A-429CAFD2A22E}

 

It seems to be a proprietary thing. I can't find it neither with Google nor in the Microsoft BDA header files. So all I can do is to map this one to DVB-T and see if it yields usable results. It's just blind guessing. Here is another test version. It will probably detect the device because it accepts the unknown node type, but it doesn't necessarily mean that TransEdit can receive something:

 

TransEdit_Test.zip

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Pcsl

As you said, TransEdit can detect the device but the Transpoder Lists appears as empty. The only relevant details is that I cannot change the Tuner Type from Terrestrial to ISDB-T in case that matters...

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Griga
18 hours ago, Pcsl said:

but the Transpoder Lists appears as empty.

 

What do you mean by "empty transponder list"? No scan results?

 

I would like to see another log.

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Pcsl
5 hours ago, Griga said:

 

What do you mean by "empty transponder list"? No scan results?

 

I would like to see another log.

 

Here I attach the log and a screenshot when I execute Transedit

 

Quote

19:20:16.647 Check tuner filters: 1
19:20:16.648 Check DigiBest ISDB-T IT9175 BDA Filter: 0
19:20:16.657 Read node descriptor: 0
19:20:16.657 Node GUID: {71985F4C-1CA1-11D3-9CC8-00C04F7971E0}
19:20:16.657 Read node descriptor: 1
19:20:16.657 Node GUID: {2B0700F0-2091-4BFD-B49A-429CAFD2A22E}
19:20:16.657 Known tuner type: ISDB-T (DigiBest)

19:20:22.033 Check tuner filters: 1
19:20:22.033 Check DigiBest ISDB-T IT9175 BDA Filter: 0
19:20:22.035 Read node descriptor: 0
19:20:22.035 Node GUID: {71985F4C-1CA1-11D3-9CC8-00C04F7971E0}
19:20:22.035 Read node descriptor: 1
19:20:22.035 Node GUID: {2B0700F0-2091-4BFD-B49A-429CAFD2A22E}
19:20:22.035 Known tuner type: ISDB-T (DigiBest)

 

 

Transedit1.png

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Griga
On 5/31/2018 at 7:37 PM, Griga said:

Store TransEdit_Test.exe in the DVBViewer installation folder (where DVBViewerDemo.exe is).

 

Did you do that? TransEdit should be able to access the transponder lists that are shipped with DVBViewer. They should be visible and selectable on the left side of the TransEdit main window in any case.

 

If you did not store TransEdit_Test.exe in the DVBViewer installation folder, please correct it and again perform the steps that I've described here.

 

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Pcsl
2 hours ago, Griga said:

 

Did you do that? TransEdit should be able to access the transponder lists that are shipped with DVBViewer. They should be visible and selectable on the left side of the TransEdit main window in any case.

 

If you did not store TransEdit_Test.exe in the DVBViewer installation folder, please correct it and again perform the steps that I've described here.

 

Yeah, my bad. As you said I didn't store it in the DVBViewer folder.

 

Now I did it and it detected some channels (maybe all) but only unencrypted channels could be watched using the Preview button. Far from being perfect but it's something.

When trying to watch red channels it said there wasn't any device available for that.

 

Anyway, here I attach the log and a screenshot to check if there is something we can do about encrypted channels.

 

Thank you!

TransEdit_Test.txt

ISDB-T.png

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Griga

Well. that's a surprise! :blink:I didn't expect that TransEdit finds channels after mapping the unknown GUID to DVB-T. However, the log shows that TransEdit can use the BDA components that are required for setting up a frequency and getting data from your device.

 

I wonder why the Digibest driver doesn't adhere to the BDA standard by simply exposing a BDA_ISDB_T_DEMODULATOR node. Maybe they want to exclude third-party-software. Or the driver developers don't know that KSNODE_BDA_ISDB_T_DEMODULATOR has been specified by Microsoft.

 

54 minutes ago, Pcsl said:

When trying to watch red channels it said there wasn't any device available for that.

 

You can avoid this error message by telling TransEdit that the device is able to decrypt. Do the following:

  • Click Info -> Configuration Folder in TransEdit (opens an Explorer window).
  • Close TransEdit.
  • Open the file TransEdit.ini from the Explorer Window with a text editor (Notepad).
  • Search the section [Hardware]
  • In this section insert a line

HasCI.0=1

  • Save the change, relaunch TransEdit, scan and try to preview  one of the red channels.

Another thing are the garbled channel names in the scanner window. TransEdit and DVBViewer are not able to display Unicode channel names. Maybe it can be fixed by setting  the "Language for Non-Unicode programs" in Windows to Japanese (more about it here).

 

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Pcsl

Channel names are easy to fix using AppLocale or similar apps as you pointed out. However, when I try to Preview one of this encrypted channels I only see a black screen. Does that mean that they should be decoded by software?

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Griga
1 hour ago, Pcsl said:

when I try to Preview one of this encrypted channels I only see a black screen. Does that mean that they should be decoded by software?

 

Decryption by software is usually avoided because it can be hacked easily. However, in most cases there is something that the application must do for decryption, like passing information to the driver in a special way.

 

Usually DVB hardware that supports decryption provides a CI (Common Interface), allowing to insert a CAM (Conditional Access Module) that enables inserting a smart card for which you have to pay. DVBViewer supports some CI systems, but they are all vendor specific, which means, there is a different driver interface for each brand.

 

I don't know how it is handled in Japan. Digibest claims to support the "Japan Multi 2 CA-System" (CA = Conditional Access) in their devices. How does the Digibest software enable watching encrypted channels? Do you have to pay for them?

 

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Pcsl
1 hour ago, Griga said:

 

Decryption by software is usually avoided because it can be hacked easily. However, in most cases there is something that the application must do for decryption, like passing information to the driver in a special way.

 

Usually DVB hardware that supports decryption provides a CI (Common Interface), allowing to insert a CAM (Conditional Access Module) that enables inserting a smart card for which you have to pay. DVBViewer supports some CI systems, but they are all vendor specific, which means, there is a different driver interface for each brand.

 

I don't know how it is handled in Japan. Digibest claims to support the "Japan Multi 2 CA-System" (CA = Conditional Access) in their devices. How does the Digibest software enable watching encrypted channels? Do you have to pay for them?

 

 

This device uses a mini B-CAS card, you don't have to pay anything for using B-CAS. Just every device selled in Japan should have that card and if for some reason if get lost you can get one for free but everything it's just free television. There is nothing to pay, as long as the device is attached, this Digibest software just shows the signal.

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Griga
19 hours ago, Pcsl said:

it's just free television.

 

For watching, but not for recording / streaming, as information in the web suggests. The encryption seems to enforce copy protection, making it almost impossible to use  it in an open software like DVBViewer that doesn't support such restrictions at all. That's what I have learned from attempts to integrate Japanese ISDB-T in Kodi (former XBMC) that are described here.

 

So I think we cannot accomplish more in DVBViewer than we have now in TransEdit, which means, support for unencrypted ISDB-T channels only. Ways to work around this limitation seem to be close to illegal, very difficult to setup and to require a lot of special knowledge (including Japanese language). That's beyond our possibilities.

 

Anyway, thanks for testing and information. It was quite interesting to get some insight in Japanese ISDB-T. I hope you will find some solution that will fit your needs.

 

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Pcsl

I'm the one who should be grateful for all you time.

 

I understand it's a tricky issue. My main reason to want to use DVBViewer is because the software provided with this device is one of the worst software I have ever seen. It's slow as hell and takes more than 5 seconds to change between channels and even just making the window full screen takes more than 15 seconds. It's just a nightmare.

 

I don't think I will find a solution that makes this works as it should but I really appreciate the time you spent trying to solve the issue just one user had.

 

Thank you!

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