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stormashell

Differences between DVBViewer and MediaServer stream.

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stormashell

Hi there.

 

Some channels don't work on Media Server stream (but work well on DVBViewer).

 

To be more specific... I like to pass channels from my home Dreambox tuner through DVB Media Server (and have m3u list with TS stream on output). First, I downloaded m3u channels list (entire bouquet) from my Dreambox (Enigma2 and Open Webif). Next, I paste this list into transponder list in DVB config folder. I scanned these "transponders" and got new channel list in DVBViewer. All channels work well. After that I ran DVB Media Server and generate simple M3U channel list. Put this list into VLC and not every channel is working. About 5-10% is not working. I checked my Dreambox logs, to by sure if Media Server sending correct commands to my tuner. Everything looks good. Media Server sends the same commands ad DVBViewer to Dreambox and response is the same too. There is no issue in my tuner. I checked on Kingofsat parameters of channels that don't work. There is nothing special in them. Simple h.264 video stream with MPEG/AC3 audio.

 

Could anybody tell me what can be wrong? I tried so many things witn no success.

Edited by stormashell

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Griga
12 hours ago, stormashell said:

First, I downloaded m3u channels list (entire bouquet) from my Dreambox (Enigma2 and Open Webif). Next, I paste this list into transponder list in DVB config folder. I scanned these "transponders" and got new channel list in DVBViewer.

 

Too cumbersome ;) M3U lists with suitable URLs can be imported by drag & drop into the DVBViewer channel editor. They don't need to be scanned.

 

Which kind of URLs? HTTP? RTSP? Please post an example.

 

12 hours ago, stormashell said:

After that I ran DVB Media Server and generate simple M3U channel list. Put this list into VLC and not every channel is working.

 

How did you generate the M3U? Which kind? For original or transcoded output?

 

Maybe it's a VLC issue. Import the DMS-generated M3U in DVBViewer. Do the affected channels work there?

 

Why don't you use the origninal Dreambox M3U in VLC? What happens if you do?

 

Many open questions... please be more specific. Looks a bit like you are making things too difficult.

 

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stormashell
8 hours ago, Griga said:

 

Too cumbersome ;) M3U lists with suitable URLs can be imported by drag & drop into the DVBViewer channel editor. They don't need to be scanned.

 

 

Allright, I will be more specific this time.

 

I am generating m3u list from my Dreambox. This is how it looks:

 

2018-10-09_10-52-10_b4c7424f-2322-4a64-92bb-e8f1f46bb698.jpg

 

As far I understand this link informs tuner which parameters should be set up to tune channel.

When I run these channels in VLC, everything work fine. But my goal is to have on m3u file links to *.ts streams.

 

VLC info

2018-10-09_11-06-18_a92ea3b0-17d5-4c6c-a244-26c1c15ae3e3.jpg

 

I decided to pass this m3u list through DVB Media Server. I know that drag & drop function is avaliable. But when I use them, huge percent of channels don't work.

 

If chennel works, it fills all info inside list editor:

2018-10-09_11-36-43_3c04d158-236f-41ee-ab3a-8450067c87a8.jpg

 

If channels doesn't work, these parameters are empty:

2018-10-09_11-38-45_8a47011d-5820-44ca-a00f-7dc786a65844.jpg

 

 

I discovered that scanning "transponders" makes all channels work correctly (I put m3u list from Dreambox to DVB "transponders" config folder and scan them).

 

After "transponder" list scanning:

2018-10-09_11-55-44_bf24b8bb-80f5-4195-8e15-6d4e49fefe54.jpg

 

In this point, all chanels work in DVBViewer.

 

Next step is DVB Media Server. I run server, open web interface and download "HTTP Channel List (Original Streams)". Inside DVB Media Server generated M3U list I have beautiful ts links:

2018-10-09_12-25-50_ffe06794-a620-459d-b792-3113c46a1c5a.jpg

 

Open it in VLC and for example: HBO 2 works; HBO HD doesn't work.

 

 

VLC Debug

 

HBO HD (doesn't work):

2018-10-09_12-42-36_812547d8-b99f-4927-b156-03929111be86.jpg

 

HBO2 HD (works):

2018-10-09_12-44-43_7e95038e-1f76-405d-9c96-f1e3e2b7a0d8.jpg

 

I am checking my Dreambox tuner log on every channel switch. It always looks the same if I use VLC / DVBViewer / DVB Media Server. So I guess it is not Dreambox issue.

Edited by stormashell

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stormashell
8 hours ago, Griga said:

Maybe it's a VLC issue. Import the DMS-generated M3U in DVBViewer. Do the affected channels work there?

 

I forgot to answer. It works the same way as in VLC. The same channels don't work.

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stormashell

And one more log from DVB Media Server with channel which do work and do not work (I use VLC with previously generated m3u list from DVB Media Server):

 

2018-10-09_14-50-16_43b9e2c9-fa8e-4a24-b484-32914d74bfb7.jpg

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Griga
18 hours ago, stormashell said:

If chennel works, it fills all info inside list editor:

 

Obviously you are receiving Hotbird. According to my Hotbird channel list there are two services named HBO2 HD on 10834 V, one with the Service ID 3543, the other with 3593. Your screenshots are showing the first one.

 

18 hours ago, stormashell said:

If channels doesn't work, these parameters are empty:


Again there are two HBO HD entries (both on 12284 H). The Service ID of the first one is 10510, the other one 10511 (also see here). The Service ID in your screenshot results from the line EXTVLCOPT:program=10511 in the Dreambox M3U. I guess it doesn't match the URL / the sent/received data. That would let the channel auto-update (that detects the remaining data in DVBViewer) fail. Try to change it in the DVBViewer channel editor or in the M3U to 10510.

 

Sorry, no more time for this now - to be continued...

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Griga

After M3U import DVBViewer only knows the URL (and the Service ID in your case), but not the delivered content. It requires some auto-detection capabilities.

 

Usually it is the task of the channel auto-update to detect the missing channel data when the channel is switched on for the first time. Looks like the scanner is able to handle wrong Service ID information, but the channel auto-update isn't (I didn't check the code yet). However, I'm quite sure that it will succeed with the correct Service ID or even no Service ID (= 0).

 

The Dreambox URLs don't contain a hint like .ts indicating the content. However, if you can use the URL in the DVBViewer channel list and if you get video, you can be sure that it is a HTTP packaged transport stream. So basically the DMS delivers the same as the Dreambox server, provided you don't use transcoding. It's just another URL for the same thing.

 

The DMS uses the same code for the TS Stream reception type as DVBViewer. So I can't see a reason why it fails on some channels that work in DVBViewer. Please make sure that it uses the same channel list as DVBViewer. In order to apply changes, first save the list in DVBiewer on the same PC (or close DVBViewer), then stop and restart the DMS. Otherwise it doesn't pick up a new list.

 

There is one thing puzzling me: The DMS hardware usage indicated in your svcdebug.log. The DMS first uses a TS Stream Device, than TS Stream device 2, then 3... that's not the expected handling. Something that I have to check yet...

 

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stormashell
On 10/9/2018 at 6:46 PM, Griga said:

Obviously you are receiving Hotbird. According to my Hotbird channel list there are two services named HBO2 HD on 10834 V, one with the Service ID 3543, the other with 3593. Your screenshots are showing the first one.

 

 

You're right. I don't know why, but many channels has two different SID on same frequency. This time I created new bouquet on my Dreambox with all duplicate services for my channels.

 

On 10/9/2018 at 6:46 PM, Griga said:

The Service ID in your screenshot results from the line EXTVLCOPT:program=10511 in the Dreambox M3U. I guess it doesn't match the URL / the sent/received data. That would let the channel auto-update (that detects the remaining data in DVBViewer) fail. Try to change it in the DVBViewer channel editor or in the M3U to 10510.

 

It has no effect on anything. I set "EXTVLCOPT:program" in m3u list to 0 on every channel and nothing has changed. VLC plays all channels and DVBViewer get PIDs for the same channels as before. Changing SIDs on DVBViewer channels doesn't change anything as well.

 

I must mention one important thing. I said before, that after drag&drop m3u from Dreambox to DVBViewer, almost all channels don't work. I was wrong. I checked it more carefully and in fact many of them are totally fine. DVBViewer fills PIDs etc. and very the same channels work on DVB Media Server after TS conversion. When I perfom "transponder scan" to make all other channels work inside DVBViewer, they do work inside Viewer, but in DMS they're still blind. Only those old channels, auto-updated after drag&drop, works as TS files. I don't know why not every channel can be auto-updated inside of Viewer. As I said, I check all avaliable services now. But more interesting for me is why DMS can't use those scanned values. It looks like DMS is searching for PIDs every time and doesn't use saved values from Viewer's channels list.

 

I'm not sure, but It looks like Dreambox gets correct http request but in return, DMS doesn't know what to do. I copied link to one channel from Dreambox, to TS Analyzer. There are so many SIDs, all of them are empty, except one. Maybe this is the source of all issues?

 

2018-10-11_00-09-48_5a67b129-0997-46a8-b3a8-187c5963d0c0.jpg

 

16 hours ago, Griga said:

So basically the DMS delivers the same as the Dreambox server, provided you don't use transcoding. It's just another URL for the same thing.

 

I checked the same channel in DMS TS version. DMS filtred all empty SIDs (this channel works). Non-wonking TS streams can't be analyzed - they're empty.

 

2018-10-10_23-48-16_fd4fc637-4d13-424b-87a2-1c34a69f7806.jpg

 

 

16 hours ago, Griga said:

Please make sure that it uses the same channel list as DVBViewer. In order to apply changes, first save the list in DVBiewer on the same PC (or close DVBViewer), then stop and restart the DMS. Otherwise it doesn't pick up a new list.

 

Sure, I know that.

 

16 hours ago, Griga said:

There is one thing puzzling me: The DMS hardware usage indicated in your svcdebug.log. The DMS first uses a TS Stream Device, than TS Stream device 2, then 3... that's not the expected handling. Something that I have to check yet...

 

Sometime, It uses only one Stream Device. But in most cases, duplicate them many times.

Edited by stormashell

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Griga
7 hours ago, stormashell said:

the same channels work on DVB Media Server after TS conversion.

 

There is no conversion. The DMS receives a TS from your Dreambox and outputs the same TS, except some adjustments (see below).

 

7 hours ago, stormashell said:

I don't know why not every channel can be auto-updated inside of Viewer.

 

Something causes failure. Unfortunately Hotbird reception is bad here (dish too small). There are many DVB-S2 transponders that I can't receive properly, among them 12284 H with HBO HD. So I can't check in TransEdit what's going on there. I need examples for non-working channels on other transponders, preferably below 11700 MHz, including their Service ID. I guess the reason for failure is hidden in the broadcasted Service Information (SI) tables, particularly PAT and PMT (see below).

 

8 hours ago, stormashell said:

I copied link to one channel from Dreambox, to TS Analyzer. There are so many SIDs, all of them are empty, except one. Maybe this is the source of all issues?

 

The Dreambox delivers the originally broadcasted PAT that contains information for all services on a transponder. Same applies to the PMT (PAT and PMT are a kind of "table of contents" for a TS, read more about it here). That makes life difficult for clients because it's hard to find out which service and which video/audio/subtitle streams are present in the TS. That's why the DMS outputs an adjusted PAT and PMT. They are reduced to the service and the streams that are actually contained in the TS. The DMS removes all unnecessary stuff, including information about scrambling etc. The DVBViewer and DMS recorder modifiy the PAT and PMT in the same way.

 

I guess PAT/PMT adjustment fails in case of the non-working channels because it uses mechanisms that are similar to the channel auto-update. Maybe even recording these channels doesn't work.

 

8 hours ago, stormashell said:

Sometime, It uses only one Stream Device. But in most cases, duplicate them many times.

 

It happens because the channels are (unnecessarily) flagged as scrambled in your channel list. This implies some restrictions for tuner usage (by default DVBViewer/DMS only allow one scrambled channel per tuner). 

 

The "Scrambled Flag" is set by the scanner because the original PMT delivered by the Dreambox contains scrambling information, which is ignored by the channel auto-update.

 

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Griga

P.S. I can simulate the Dreambox TS output in TransEdit 4.2.1:

  • On settings -> Analyzer set up the TransEdit server, e.g. Protocol = HTTP, IP = 127.0.0.1 (for DVBViewer on the same PC), Port = 5018
  • Select a Polish Hotbird transponder in the main window.
  • Start the Analyzer.
  • Open the PAT node in the treeview
  • Right-click a service (opens a context menu) -> Select PIDs (selects all PIDs belonging to the service on the right side)
  • Click "Start Streaming". TransEdit outputs all selected PIDs including the unmodified PAT and PMT to the stream
  • Create a new TS Stream entry in the DVBViewer channel editor with http://127.0.0.1:5018 as URL.
  • Select the new channel and watch what the channel auto-update does...

This works including auto-update in DVBViewer with TVP1 HD, SID = 15067 on 11449 H (same as your first screenshot here), though reception of this transponder is very bad. Now I need to find a non-working channel on a Polish transponder that I can receive...

 

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Griga

P.P.S. Found one: On Hotbird 12264 V the channel auto-update can cope with History HD (SID = 3112), but not with PolSat Sport HD (3118) or PolSat Sport Extra HD (3112).

 

No time anymore. I will start a debug session later...

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stormashell
12 minutes ago, Griga said:

History HD (SID = 3112)

 

I am not sure about that. It's "Polsat Sport Extra HD" SID. History HD has SID 3119 and can't be auto-update. You are right about Polsat Sport and Sport Extra. They can't auto-update for me too.

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Griga
8 hours ago, stormashell said:

I am not sure about that. It's "Polsat Sport Extra HD" SID.

 

You are right. The History HD SID should be 3122, not 3112.

 

8 hours ago, stormashell said:

History HD has SID 3119

 

All mentioned channels have two SIDs on this transponder. History HD with SID = 3122 can be auto-updated here, History HD with SID = 3119 can't. What does this tell us?

 

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stormashell
1 hour ago, Griga said:

All mentioned channels have two SIDs on this transponder. History HD with SID = 3122 can be auto-updated here, History HD with SID = 3119 can't. What does this tell us?

 

I have no idea. For example TVN Style HD on 11508 V has two SIDs. 15822 and 15823 start work after 1-2 min. of waiting for auto-update. On DMS I am waiting 10 minutes for SID 15822 or 15823 and nothing. I can load them forever with no success. Both SIDs work after 1 sec on VLC from Dreambox m3u.

 

EDIT: SID 15822 tuned from DMS after ~10min.

Edited by stormashell

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stormashell

EDIT 2: And I can't tune it again. After ~10min. VLC returns me error.

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Griga
1 hour ago, Griga said:

History HD with SID = 3122 can be auto-updated here, History HD with SID = 3119 can't. What does this tell us? 

 

The difference is the PMT section size. The PMT of History HD with SID = 3122 fits into one TS packet (maximum payload size = 184 bytes). The PMT of History HD with SID = 3119 doesn't, because it is much larger: Right-click the PMT entry in the Analyzer's treeview -> Table Stats -> Expand the nodes until you can see the SectionLength entry.

 

The difference is partly caused by scrambling information. In the small PMT there are shared Conditional Access Descriptors for all contained streams. In the large PMT there are separate Conditional Access Descriptors for each stream (video, audio...). And there is a proprietary (user-defined) descriptor with a length of 102 bytes. Obviously the two History HD services are designed for different targets (different CAM/CI/receiver types or whatever...).

 

Conclusion: The DVBViewer/DMS auto-update strategy doesn't work out if the PMT section size exceeds the TS packet size. I have to rethink it...

 

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stormashell
8 minutes ago, Griga said:

Conclusion: The DVBViewer/DMS auto-update strategy doesn't work out if the PMT section size exceeds the TS packet size. I have to rethink it...

 

Let me now if You need more debug logs from different frequences or something.

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Griga

I will post here when the fix is complete and provide a DMS/DVBviewer test version. Half of it is already done...

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Griga

Please check your PMs...

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