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The "Channel minus" and "Channel plus" keys use the "Channel Editor" order and not the "Channel List" order


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Posted (edited)

Hi.

 

Now you can sort the channels by number (thanks!) and here is a detail of the result in"Channel List".

image.png.cdf255d0895a55445f7678a774a3908d.png

But if I use the "Channel minus" and "Channel plus" buttons they use the "Channel Editor" order and not the "Channel List" order.

Unfortunately the "Channel Editor" does not foresee (for now?) the order by channel number.

So if, for example, I am on channel "[6] Italia 1 HD" and I press "Channel plus" I do not go, as I expect, on channel "[7] LA7 HD" but on the following one in the "Channel Editor", which is "[20] 20Mediaset HD".

I don't know if it is desired (I hope not) but for me the behavior of these two buttons should be changed, using the order of the channels as selected in the "Channel List".

Ciao,

 

Andrea

 

Edited by AndreaB
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vor 2 Stunden schrieb AndreaB:

if I use the "Channel minus" and "Channel plus" buttons they use the "Channel Editor" order and not the "Channel List" order.

 

This is by design and can't be changed. The channel list options only influence how the channel list is displayed. They don't change how the channel list is stored internally. Originally the DVBViewer channel list has a hierarchical structure, as you can see in the channel editor. That's why sorting by user defined numbers is only of limited use. It requires displaying a linear channel list representation. I've already mentioned that.

 

What I would do: Copy the channels (at least the important ones) from the channel editor to the favourites list, which is a linear list if you don't use folders, manually give the favourites the desired order and use the favourite plus/minus buttons. Please read more about it here.

 

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On 6/9/2022 at 1:08 PM, Griga said:

This is by design and can't be changed. The channel list options only influence how the channel list is displayed. They don't change how the channel list is stored internally. Originally the DVBViewer channel list has a hierarchical structure

Got it, but there would always be index files for the DBs.
You store datas structurally but create an index file in order of "channel number" and (optionally) use this index for channel "zapping".
 

On 6/9/2022 at 1:08 PM, Griga said:

What I would do: Copy the channels (at least the important ones) from the channel editor to the favourites list

Ok, but this further "trick" does nothing but make DVBViewer less friendly towards users with DVB-T receivers: I think that the ultimate goal is to simulate a TV as much as possible (apart from the other countless functions of DVBViewer) and the TV:

  • automatically reads the channel number from the LCN (not with a transition from TransEdit);
  • allow me to choose some channel to use in case of identical LCN;
  • if I "zap" with the remote control (yes, I have Flirc and I use a IR remote control) with "+" and "-" I don't have to move all the channels to favorites, one by one.

And this at every scan (apart from the configuration with "Tweaker.exe" to be done once).

Anyway, switching channels to favorites does not solve the problem of incorrect scanning with the "+" and "-" keys: if I haven't made a mistake, they still use the "Channel Editor" order.. 😭

Ciao,

Andrea

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vor 10 Stunden schrieb AndreaB:

Got it, but there would always be index files for the DBs.

 

The DVBViewer channel list is not organized as DB. It is a a 20 year old binary format under monument conservation, because changing it would mean that several add-ons would not work anymore.

 

vor 10 Stunden schrieb AndreaB:

I think that the ultimate goal is to simulate a TV as much as possible

 

If someone wants everything like on a TV, he/she should use a TV.

 

vor 10 Stunden schrieb AndreaB:

switching channels to favorites does not solve the problem of incorrect scanning with the "+" and "-" keys

 

Go to Settings -> Options -> Input, switch to Learn Mode and assign the keys to the Favourite Plus/Minus actions.

 

As already suspected, the "Sort by Channel Number" menu item in the channel list context menu isn't that useful. Sorting in the Channel Editor can only be done per category, so it would be necessary to move all channels to a single category first. The favourite list is closer to a linear list (the user can at least arrange it as linear list), so it may be better to implement sorting by custom numbers in the Favourites Editor.

 

A third (potential) possibility would be to add a branch to the Plus/Minus commands that searches the channel list for the next/previous custom number. However, this would make it impossible to switch to a channel without such a number or with a duplicate number. The implications have to be considered carefully before coding it.

 

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On 6/15/2022 at 5:30 PM, Griga said:

It is a a 20 year old binary format under monument conservation,

We can open a petition to UNESCO 😀

On 6/15/2022 at 5:30 PM, Griga said:

If someone wants everything like on a TV, he/she should use a TV.

There are many people, besides me, who have a PC with a good monitor in a room other than the living room and either with a TV card or through the Media Server, DVBViewer, Flirc, an old IR remote control (or new) turns it into a good TV .

On 6/15/2022 at 5:30 PM, Griga said:

Go to Settings -> Options -> Input, switch to Learn Mode and assign the keys to the Favourite Plus/Minus actions.

Sorry, I didn't see that there was also a "minus" and "plus" for the favorites.
Ok, now it works like a real TV (when transferring channels to favorites I choose which one to keep in case of duplication).
You understand, however, that performing the two main procedures EVERY time I perform a scan is quite frustrating.

 

It would be very useful if in the "Channel list" you could select more than one channel (eg. select all then I remove the unwanted duplicates) and transfer them with a single command to the favorites.

Ciao,

Andrea

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Am 17.6.2022 um 22:54 schrieb AndreaB:

You understand, however, that performing the two main procedures EVERY time I perform a scan is quite frustrating.

 

You don't have to. The Add/Update function in the TransEdit scanner window (as well as a DVBViewer channel search) updates already existing channels in the DVBViewer channel list and adds new channels. After a channel search you only have to handle new channels, if there are any. And maybe channels with a changed LCN. But I think there are not so many changes in DVB-T networks, in contrast to satellite positions with thousand channels or more...

 

However, TransEdit could do better if there are scan results without LCN, maybe because the scan was performed without the "scan for logical channel numbers" option or no LCN is assigned to a channel. In this case the Update function should leave an already existing LCN in the DVBViewer channel list untouched instead of resetting it to 0 (which internally means "no LCN"). I've just changed it accordingly.

 

Am 17.6.2022 um 22:54 schrieb AndreaB:

It would be very useful if in the "Channel list" you could select more than one channel

 

You can. The Channel Editor supports multi-selection in the usual Windows way. Please read more about it here.

 

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13 hours ago, Griga said:

But I think there are not so many changes in DVB-T networks

True, but I can't afford to just scan from TransEdit in the hope that the channels in DVBViewer have changed little (especially in this period of DVB-T -> DVB-T2 migration): if I want to have an updated list I have to:

  • Perform a DVB-T scan in DVBViewer.
  • Perform a DVB-T scan in TransEdit with LCN management.
  • Update LCNs in DVBViewer from TransEdit.
  • In DVBViewer update the favorites list (and if I want to make sure I don't miss any deletions or new channels, it is better to clear the favorites list and repopulate it from scratch) by skipping the double channels.
13 hours ago, Griga said:

should leave an already existing LCN in the DVBViewer channel list untouched instead of resetting it to 0 (which internally means "no LCN"). I've just changed it accordingly.

Ok, in the next version I try this new feature and see if there is any problem with the final channel list.

 

13 hours ago, Griga said:

You can. The Channel Editor supports multi-selection in the usual Windows way. Please read more about it here.

The explanation, and the multi-channel select functions, are for the "Chennel List Editor" where I can NOT sort the channels by LCN.
I have to use the "Channel Lists" where I can sort the channels by LCN but there it seems to me that the multi-channel selection functions are not there.
Ciao,

Andrea

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vor 12 Stunden schrieb AndreaB:
  • Perform a DVB-T scan in DVBViewer.
  • Perform a DVB-T scan in TransEdit with LCN management.
  • Update LCNs in DVBViewer from TransEdit.
  • In DVBViewer update the favorites list (and if I want to make sure I don't miss any deletions or new channels, it is better to clear the favorites list and repopulate it from scratch) by skipping the double channels.

 

Looks like you are making it as cumbersome as possible. A good example for "How to not use TransEdit" :) Rather do it in the following way:

  • Perform a DVB-T scan in TransEdit with LCN management.
  • Click the "Dead Channels" button, if it is enabled, and delete channels from your channel list that are no more present.
  • Check if there are significant LCN changes. TransEdit marks them with a different background color in the LCN column.
  • Select "Scan Date" as category, in order to let TransEdit store new channels (if there are any) in a special category. The category of already existing channels remains unchanged.
  • Right-click the list of scan results -> Select All.
  • Click Add/Update.

Since TransEdit does not change the favourites list, you have to update it manually in the DVBViewer Channel Editor by copying (dragging and dropping) new channels from the Scan Date folder to the appropriate position in the Favourites Editor. Favourites that are no more present in the channel list are marked with a red cross in the Favourites Editor (which means, they are not assignable anymore) and can be deleted.

 

vor 12 Stunden schrieb AndreaB:

I have to use the "Channel Lists" where I can sort the channels by LCN but there it seems to me that the multi-channel selection functions are not there.

 

For what do you need multi-selection in the channel list? It doesn't make sense to me.

 

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Am 15.6.2022 um 17:30 schrieb Griga:

A third (potential) possibility would be to add a branch to the Plus/Minus commands that searches the channel list for the next/previous custom number. However, this would make it impossible to switch to a channel without such a number or with a duplicate number. The implications have to be considered carefully before coding it.

 

I've played a bit with this idea. The first step is to create a set of rules that describe exactly what shall happen in which situation. The starting point:

  • Channel Plus: Search for the channel with the lowest LCN that is greater than the current LCN (the next in LCN order). If no channel can be found in this way, search for the channel with the lowest LCN (wrap-around to the first one).
  • Channel Minus: Seacrh for the channel with the highest LCN that is less than the current LCN (the previous in LCN order). If no channel can be found in this way, search for the channel with the highest LCN (wrap-around to the last one).

But this is not complete. The tricky part are all the "what ifs", for example "What if there is no channel tuned?" It could be handled in the following way:

  • Channel Plus: Search for the the channel with the lowest LCN (the first one in LCN order).
  • Channel Minus: Search for the the channel with the highest LCN (the last one in LCN order).

And what if a channel is tuned, that has no LCN? This case could be handled as above. However, this would mean that channels without LCN can never be tuned with Channel Plus / Minus. They are out of reach. So it may be better to apply the following rules, if the current channel has no LCN:

  • Channel Plus: Fall back to tuning the next channel in Channel Editor order.
  • Channel Minus: Fall back to tuning the previous channel in Channel Editor order.

This would also cover "What if there is no LCN at all in the channel list?" Sometimes users do strange things. They activate "Use custom channel numbers", but never enter such numbers. This needs a fallback to the Channel Editor order in any case, because every search for a LCN will fail.

 

However, even with the modified rules it is still impossible to use Channel Plus/Minus for tuning a channel without LCN, as long as channels with LCN are tuned. You can't get to them except by selecting them directly in the channel list. Up to now I don't see a perfect solution for the mixed case. It can happen easily, for example if someone receives DVB-T and also DVB-S or IPTV or internet radio. Many people do this, because IPTV doesn't require additional hardware, but only Internet access with some MBit downstream bandwidth. E.g. from here you can download an IPTV channel list in M3U format with several thousands of channels (among them 203 Italian channels including RAI) - simply drag & drop the M3U file from an Explorer Window into the Channel Editor.

 

Try, and you will see the limitations of the LCN system. It's something for grandma and grandpa, who are used to an old-fashioned TV set with DVB-T as the only reception type and only few channels (less than 100) with fixed channel numbers...

 

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