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VMR question to gurus


mitsu

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Would it be possible to limit VMR7 or VMR9 framerate to 25 fps?

 

I had flawless H.264 rendering with VMR7 using Forceware 93.71, DVBViewer beta .100

and TT S2-3200 with 4.4.10.17 drivers. Framerate was stable 25, zero dropped frames,

jitter and delay. My display adapter is MSI Geforce 7600GS AGP 512 MB.

 

After updating to latest versions of Forceware, DVBViewer and TT drivers VMR7 is having

variable framefate at around 33 fps but worse picture with 0,3% dropped frames, 11 ms jitter

and 2 ms sync offset. Sometimes the drop rate can be even 30% and jitter 40 ms.

 

I went back to earlier versions but framerate did not go back to earlier stable 25. What can I do?

I want the perfect picture back :)

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Try to change the deinterlace settings (and others you can find in the main decoder window)...

Also you can install some sw to trick the codec more deeply, like Coolbits...

 

;)

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Try to change the deinterlace settings (and others you can find in the main decoder window)...

Also you can install some sw to trick the codec more deeply, like Coolbits...

 

:bye:

 

I tried Coolbits. There is indeed one promising option "Vertical sync" which has something to do with this problem. However it did not change anything.

 

Cyberlink customer support said that there are no options available to control the frame rate.

 

I was hoping that Griga would have some advice in this matter :)

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Well, what I would do resp. would have done: Go back to a system restore point. XP makes it quite easy:

 

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/h...temrestore.mspx

 

and then install one after the other, with intermediate testing. I can see no efforts to isolate and pinpoint the problem, so it is nearly impossible to help you.

 

I already found the reason for the change (I posted that to beta .120 follow-ups). Reason is some change between beta .101 and beta .121. That is promising because probably somebody in the development team may be able to find the reason. On the other hand nobody else can help.

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I posted that to beta .120 follow-ups

Why didn't you provide at least a link here and another one in the beta thread? If you want results, don't make it difficult for the supporters / developers to track the topic by posting part of the problem here and another one elsewhere.

 

Usually the renderer processes images too fast if it has no clock. So I'd say, use GraphEdit -> Connect to Remote Graph and attach a screenshot here. Maybe it reveales something...

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Why didn't you provide at least a link here and another one in the beta thread?

 

Sorry for that. Here is the link anyway: http://www.DVBViewer.com/forum/index.php?s...st&p=117408

 

Now I don´t know where I should continue the discussion. I decided to continue it here.

 

Graph of Beta .101 filter setup for H.264:

 

Graph of Beta .121 filter setup for H.264:

 

Only difference seems to be the OSD.

 

Graphs are similar with mpeg2.

 

Really with beta .101 "Weave" cause sync to 25 fps and "Bob" sync to 50 fps. This happens both with mpeg2 and H.264. Nvidia purevideo decoder (mpeg2) does the same except Bob is video and Weave is film in their terminology.

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My display is a Philips 37PF9830 LCD HDTV. I use standard PAL HDTV timings both 720p and 1080i configured using Nvidia control panel.

 

I tried also US timings (59,94 Hz) but still the framerate in VMR7 stays in 25 (or 50) fps. For me this indicates that framerate is taken from the source material (PAL tv broadcast).

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The first graph looks like there is no OSD available, because there is no OSD Source, right? I wonder why... here (beta .101) the OSD Source is always included, when I switch to VMR 7. Did you already try to disable the OSD in the .121 options?

 

As you can see, the clock is provided by the audio renderer. Try what happens if you switch to a different one (e.g. Default DirectSound).

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The first graph looks like there is no OSD available, because there is no OSD Source, right? I wonder why... here (beta .101) the OSD Source is always included, when I switch to VMR 7. Did you already try to disable the OSD in the .121 options?

 

As you can see, the clock is provided by the audio renderer. Try what happens if you switch to a different one (e.g. Default DirectSound).

 

There is some compatibility problem with VMR7 as Christian says here:

 

http://www.DVBViewer.com/forum/index.php?s...st&p=115447

 

He made a special fix for this in .120. Could that cause the loss of sync?

 

 

 

As you can see, the clock is provided by the audio renderer. Try what happens if you switch to a different one (e.g. Default DirectSound).

 

How do you see that?

Edit: You mean the small clock symbol.

 

Anyway, I checked all available audio rendereds in the DirectX/Audio renderer options list. No change.

I am using USB audio device for SPDIF output. Could that cause problem?

Edited by mitsu
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How do you see that?

It carries a clock symbol. :bye:

 

The graph screenshots suggest that the OSD source connecting to the second input pin causes the problem. Seems in the .101 it didn't work for some reason, and they've fixed it in the .121. However, here it works with the .101, and it doesn't need a Color Space Converter.

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Sometime a reapplication of the DirectX solved me similar problem (the strange presence of the "Color Space Converter")...

Be sure to use the very last version, today is available the "October 2006" update...

 

Another little tip is to change (normally lowering) the monitor refresh: some card/driver couple have strange limitation in the DXVA at freq higher than 75Hz...

 

:bye:

Edited by Gioxy
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Sometime a reapplication of the DirectX solved me similar problem (the strange presence of the "Color Space Converter")...

Be sure to use the very last version, today is available the "October 2006" update...

 

Another little tip is to change (normally lowering) the monitor refresh: some card/driver couple have strange limitation in the DXVA at freq higher than 75Hz...

 

:bye:

 

I already have DirectX End-User Runtime 10/10/2006 :)

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I see, but I ment a REapplication of it...

 

On my PC I haven't the "Color Space Converter" in the chain and for Griga PC's is the same... so it appear that there must be something wrong in your video drive/DirectX/codec assembly, REappling DirectX sometime (ehm... maybe you need also a little bit of luke...) can be a stright solution...

 

Why don't you simply try to REapply it? :bye:

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On my PC I haven't the "Color Space Converter" in the chain

The Color Space Converter is a standard MS DirectShow filter. It indicates that connecting the OSD source to the VMR 7 requires a conversion from RGB to YUV or vice versa. Dunno why it comes in here... maybe due to ForceWare (?). However, i can't imagine that it causes the frame rate issues.

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Did you already try to disable the OSD in the .121 options?

 

Got it!

 

Disabling OSD did not change framerate because the OSD part remains in the filter chain.

 

However, framerate syncs to 25 fps when I remove the OSD connection from the graph using Graphedit and restart the filter!

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One more thing: VMR9 seems to work exactly the same way.

When I remove the OSD connection from the graph framerate is synchronizes to 25 fps giving perfect picture.

 

So this is not VMR7 issue.

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When I remove the OSD connection from the graph framerate is synchronizes to 25 fps giving perfect picture.

It would be better if DVBViewer Pro would *not* connect the OSD Source filter to the VMR Renderers if the OSD is disabled.

 

However, here is a plugin that does it for you. Store the files in DVBViewer\Plugins. After that, a new menu entry "Disable VMR OSD" will show up in the Plugins Menu. If there is a checkmark the plugin will do the following:

 

- disconnect the OSD source

- disconnect and remove the Color Space Converter, if present

 

each time when DVBViewer Pro rebuilds the filter graph. Thus it takes a "Rebuild Graph" to let a change take effect.

 

I hope it helps (coudn't test the Color Space Converter removal). Please note that it's not a "clean" solution, because DVBViewer Pro still assumes that the OSD is present, if it is enabled in the options, and will behave accordingly.

DisableVMROSD.zip

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I really need OSD :bye:

In Finland we use subtitles and they use OSD.

 

Do you have any idea how to get the system work with OSD?

 

Why is the filter chain behaving differently with OSD?

I have absolutely no clue how the filters interact but

would it be possible to get the clock from DVBSource.

Any other way of forcing the sync?

 

Is this only my problem or would this benefit all DVBV users.

 

Thank you for the plugin anyway. That solves the most burning problem.

Edited by mitsu
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Some more information.

 

I installed an interesting filter called ReClock from here:

 

http://reclock.free.fr/

 

ReClock replaces the default directshow audio rendered and synchronises the filter chain to

the video card clock.

 

ReClock shows that video is 25 fps and fully in sync but picture is jerky and VMR shows over 30 fps

framerate.

 

Something happens in VMR when OSD is connected to the input1.

 

 

Why don't you simply try to REapply it? :bye:

 

Sorry. I don't know how to reapply. Do you mean re-install?

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ReClock replaces the default directshow audio rendered and synchronises the filter chain to the video card clock.

 

I recently removed ReClock because it caused serious issues with streaming video/audio. Fiddling with the different settings in ReClock (such as not changing framerate when the video/audio is a streaming source) improved the problems a bit, but, not completely.

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I don't know how to reapply. Do you mean re-install?

 

Yes! The best way is to download the DirectX End User Runtimes (October 2006) Full Download (take care to select the right language!) and re-apply (or re-install, if you'd preferer ;) ) whenever you change anything regarding the DirectX (multimedia hw added, multimedia sw added, video driver update etc.).

:bye:

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This is what VMR9 property page says about the OSD connected to input pin 1:

 

 

 

I'm wondering whether this is as it should be.

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I'm wondering whether this is as it should be.

 

no for sure... it shouldnt

 

auweiacw0.jpg

 

 

it should look like this

 

correctjk2.jpg

 

but a nice coincidence in my everlasting battle contra the never functional vmr 9 implementation

in my favorite dvb/s program .... DVBViewer

 

;););) sorry christian...

 

vmr 9 :

 

try displaying a news channel (ntv) with fast moving text , you will see the nicest hicups you ever saw .....

not so fine ...omg.. if your display is 50,000 Hz calibrated and uses sophisticated vector deinterlacing....

 

overlay is smooth as silk.

 

download "process explorer" by sysinternals :

look at your cpu load with vmr 9

try switching some channels and see what happens

 

in my configuration (your milage may vary)

 

a Core Duo E 6600@3,2 GHz with 0-1 % cpuload in overlay mode...- is now happy to swallow up 15 % cpu(peak)

 

and....

with a calibrated highend HD plasma vmr 9 and its bilinear scaling , 8 bit rendering and its incorrect changing of videolevels

is a violent attack against the human eye..

 

:(:)

 

 

 

heeee...but wait

 

****the only vmr 9 setup in my humble opinion that looks promising is :

 

mediaplayer classics

 

in

 

VMR 9 renderless mode (texture surfaces and 3D rendering ) AND BICUBIC resizing with pixelshader 2.0

 

(you nedd a fast CPU and a DX9 graphiccard) and all of a sudden the replay of your dvbviewerfiles result in a normal cpu load of approx. 5 %..

 

why oh why....

Edited by vonMengen
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  • 1 month later...

Very interesting finding indeed:

 

When watching DVB-S2 H.264 channels with <unchanged> video renderer selected looks like VMR7 in used.

But now the filter chain is perfectly synchronized.

 

This is great, but I really would like to know why this VMR7 mode works and the other does not?

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Why is the sync behaving differently in different VMR7 modes with DVBV?

May be caused by the way DVBViewer displays the OSD. VMR 7 windowed mode is more or less overlay without overlay mixer. In contrast to windowless mode, the OSD is displayed without using the video renderer's mixer unit. Did you already try Options -> DirectX -> NVidia VMR Fix with "VMR 7"?

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May be caused by the way DVBViewer displays the OSD. VMR 7 windowed mode is more or less overlay without overlay mixer. In contrast to windowless mode, the OSD is displayed without using the video renderer's mixer unit. Did you already try Options -> DirectX -> NVidia VMR Fix with "VMR 7"?

 

OSD seems to be the difference. With "unchanged" there is no separate OSD branch in the graph. Video renderer is there with only one input pin (VMR input0). Renderer is actually VMR7 when looking the properties from DVBV View->Filters.

 

I tried with and without the Nvidia fixes. With H.264 no difference.

 

Only problem I can see with the "unchanged" is that the display color adjustments are not possible. Are the color profile adjustments in Windows active in that mode? At least with VMR9 they are. Color profile is actually what I need (to correct the TV colors using Spyder2).

 

Is there a VMR9 windowed mode possible somehow same way as VMR7 windowed?

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Only problem I can see with the "unchanged" is that the display color adjustments are not possible.

Not supported by VMR 7

 

Is there a VMR9 windowed mode possible

Yes. But in contrast to the VMR 7 it doesn't use overlay in this mode. So there is no way to achieve transparency without again using the mixer unit that most likely causes the frame rate issues in your case. Overlay enables transparency in a different way (no mixer required), and the DVBViewer Pro OSD needs transparency, because it's always "full screen". The non-visible parts are displayed transparently.

 

DVBViewer GE provides a "VMR 9 (Mixer disabled)" rendering mode (= windowed mode), because it uses a kind of partial "patchwork" OSD that does not cover the whole picture. However, due to the lack of transparency the OSD looks quite clumsy in this mode .... try.

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When rendering mode is "unchanged" VMR7 is used but color profile is not.

When rendering mode is VMR7 color profile is used.

 

I need color profile. What is the reason the profile is not used in windowed mode?

Any possibilities to get the profile activated in the windowed mode (I assume not)?

 

Damn. To get the color profile and fluent picture either sync with OSD need to work

with VMR7/9 or color profile need to work in the windowed mode. Both seem to be

difficult.

 

I guess windowed mode with VMR9 does not support profiles either. Have to check that

with GE version.

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Griga:

 

I want to understand what is the reason for my frame rate sync problem.

Is it due to my system or something else.

 

If you select VMR7 or VMR9 and tune to a H.264 channel what does the renderer

property page show as the frame rate? Does it show steady 25 fps without

dropped frames and 0 jitter?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I borrowed a Radeon X1550 card and tested video rendering with it. Suprisingly (?) X1550 is much slower than 7600GS. Anyway, sync problems are the same and therefore not caused by Nvidia.

 

Griga: could you post a picture of the video property page after watching any channel using DVBViewer PRO and VMR7? I would like to see if VMR7 video sync is happening in some configuration.

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Would somebody be so kind and post a picture of VMR7 property page after watching any normal channel for a while with VMR7 renderer (View -> Filters -> VMR 7 Renderer -> Quality).

 

This is what I would like to see:

 

post-14848-1173441785_thumb.png

 

and this is what I see with my system:

 

post-14848-1173441899_thumb.png

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