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boborg
The Firedtv app should have also a transponders folder, try to copy the needed ini to the transedit (DVBViewer) transponder folder.

 

 

I edited the ini in the FireDTVViewer transponders folder as specified earlier then scanning those DVB-S2 transponders worked in FireDTVViewer.

 

It's the modified ini that i've tested without success with Transedit. Same ini works for DVB-S2 scanning in FireDTVViewer so must be Transedit FloppyDTV S2 support that's not working.

 

I'll return with a report on 19.2 E DVB-S2 later.

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Klaus_1250
TransEdit 3.1 is available in the members area:

- Fix: The NIT update scan didn't work for DVB-C.

 

- Fix: The Analyzer reported a wrong DVB-C symbolrate in the Cable Delivery System Descriptors of the NIT (Network Information Table).

 

Thanks to Moses for hints and DVB-C testing.

 

Transedit indeed seems to use the NIT for scanning DVB-C channels :-) , but it makes an error in my case (or better, with my provider @home, the Netherlands) :-( .

 

My network ID is 1111, whereas the "standard/default" network ID (using different frequencies) is 1000. @home does not the correct NIT for different networks, e.g. it always sends the NIT for Network ID 1000 as default.

 

Hence, during an (update) scan, Transedit will scan both the frequencies in the .ini (manually inputted for my Network ID, 1111) plus the non-existent frequencies in the NIT for Network ID 1000.

 

I would highly appreciate it if it would be possible to manually input my network ID somewhere, as the NIT for my network is being broadcasted. Just not as the default as it should be.

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Griga
I edited the ini in the FireDTVViewer transponders folder as specified earlier then scanning those DVB-S2 transponders worked in FireDTVViewer.

 

It's the modified ini that i've tested without success with Transedit. Same ini works for DVB-S2 scanning in FireDTVViewer so must be Transedit FloppyDTV S2 support that's not working.

By editing the INI you've changed the modulation setting from QPSK to Auto. Dunno what they did in the FireDTV app to make it work - the Conexant chip is not able to auto-detect the modulation in S2 mode. Maybe it's a 8PSK transponder, and they've set 8PSK as default, if the user selects auto. Without systematically trying the relevant parameters, as stated in the TransEdit manual, you won't get any further, and your reports won't tell me anything useful. A FireDTV S2 user has confirmed in the German section of this board that scanning the Pro7/Sat.1 HD transponder (8PSK) on Astra 19° E works with the DVBViewer/TransEdit transponder list.

 

@Klaus_ 1250: Let me have a look at it. Select some transponder -> Analyze -> wait 30 seconds -> select the "NIT actual" entry on the left side -> Save as XML -> zip it -> attach it here.

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Klaus_1250

Here is both NIT - Actual (Kabel (QAM 64) 6875MSs 356000_01) and NIT - Other (Kabel (QAM 64) 6875MSs 356000_02).

 

NIT - Actual is for NetworkID 1000, which is actually not my network. 1111 is, which is in NIT - Other. Hence my request for an option to manually specify a network ID.

Kabel__QAM_64__6875MSs_356000_01.zip

Kabel__QAM_64__6875MSs_356000_02.zip

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boborg
A FireDTV S2 user has confirmed in the German section of this board that scanning the Pro7/Sat.1 HD transponder (8PSK) on Astra 19° E works with the DVBViewer/TransEdit transponder list.

 

Okay seems something is strange at my end so think you can disregard my findings all together. After testing scanning 19.2 East I discovered a strange thing. Scanning H transponders (12460 and above) DVB-S and DVB-S2 does not find any channels in Transedit while same transponders 12460 and above H DVB-S transponders does return channels in DVBViewer scanning on the FloppyDTV S2 :bounce:

 

12522 V and 12580 V DVB-S2 transponders were scanned with result with Transedit 3.1.0.0 and FloppyDTV S2.

Edited by boborg

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Griga
NIT - Actual is for NetworkID 1000, which is actually not my network. 1111 is, which is in NIT - Other. Hence my request for an option to manually specify a network ID.

Sorry, that won't do it. TransEdit doesn't examine the "other" NIT part when performing an update scan. Seems your broadcaster doesn't handle it DVB compliant. The ETSI specifications state very clearly:

 

Any sections of the NIT which describe the actual network (that is, the network of which the TS containing the NIT is a part) shall have the table_id 0x40 with the same table_id_extension (network_id). The network_id field takes the value assigned to the actual network in ETR 162

Thus the NIT sections describing the actual network (the one you receive) with table_id 0x40 (that's what the update scan looks for) should contain the network ID 1111, and the cable delivery system descriptors should enumerate the frequencies that you can receive, which is not the case.

 

Any sections of an NIT which refer to a network other than the actual network shall take a table_id value of 0x41 and the network_id shall take the value allocated to the other network

Ignored by the update scan. Anyway - thanks for giving me an insight.

 

@boborg: Are you able to scan the Premiere HD transponder 11914 H with the FireDTV S2 and the transponderlist that is included in the TransEdit package?

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Klaus_1250

Thanks for your time and reply Griga. My provider ( @home ) is not known for compliance to standards and technical competence, so while I will report this to them, I doubt they will change it.

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Lars_MQ
so while I will report this to them, I doubt they will change it.

Maybe we should send derrick, he will shower them with specs and etsis and isos till they surrender :bounce:(w00t)

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Derrick

No, wrong ! The application has to take the mistakes of the broadcasters into account.

 

collect your cable frequencies -> edit your cable.ini -> switch off NIT-search -> perform a scan -> and they lived happy ever after :bounce:

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Klaus_1250
Maybe we should send derrick, he will shower them with specs and etsis and isos till they surrender :bounce:(w00t)

 

:-) After looking a bit better at their website, I actually discovered that they don't intent to offer a DVB-C compliant service. The word DVB or DVB-C is not mentioned a single time on their website and also does not appear in any of their advertising or communications. Apart from not using NIT's correctly (the STB's they offer/you are required to purchase have been modified for this behavior (NetworkID had to be inputted manually and now seems to be hardcoded)), they offer several radio-streams (the most popular) without PCR's (e.g. won't play in DVBViewer or VLC). They also use region-coded Irdeto2 which means the only CAM that you can use is an Alphacrypt or [removed].

 

@Derrick: I understand that it is not an applications responsibility to take non-compliant behavior into account and time invested in such features is actually a waste of time of a developers time (which is usually scarce and expensive). However, as long as I've been using and working with computers and technology, I've been confronted with service providers and companies who refuse to adhere to standards and RFC's. Sometimes due to incompetence, sometimes due to indifference and carelessness, sometimes due to poor technical education of personal, but most often intentional due to aggressive/monopolistic strategies and policies. And in the latter case, both consumers and independent usually are the ones that lose :-(

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Derrick

..youn can keep on whining but if you want to watch a service with non-compliant SI, you or better the application has to bend. To be able to bend you have to understand what's wrong. That's why it's useful to know the standards :bounce:

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karimr

Can Transedit work with Dish Network to pull down the channel names during Scan. I have trying but keep getting Service name and Number.

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Griga

What is Dish Network? Located where?

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karimr
What is Dish Network? Located where?

 

 

Satellite Provider, North America

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Griga

TransEdit expects a DVB compliant transmission of channel names. If the broadcaster uses a proprietary or ATSC-like system, TransEdit can't read them, sorry.

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karimr
TransEdit expects a DVB compliant transmission of channel names. If the broadcaster uses a proprietary or ATSC-like system, TransEdit can't read them, sorry.

 

When you Analyze the Transponder it picks up the name, but when you scan it does not.

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Griga

Which version? From the members area (3.1) or the free one?

 

In case of TransEdit 3.1: Select an output directory on Settings/Analyzer -> select one of those transponders -> Analyze -> wait 30 seconds -> select the SDT Actual entry on the left (if there is any) -> Save as XML -> zip it and attach it here, so I can have a look at it.

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karimr
Which version? From the members area (3.1) or the free one?

 

In case of TransEdit 3.1: Select an output directory on Settings/Analyzer -> select one of those transponders -> Analyze -> wait 30 seconds -> select the SDT Actual entry on the left (if there is any) -> Save as XML -> zip it and attach it here, so I can have a look at it.

 

 

3.1 from the Members Area. Here is the file.

Echostar_7_12282_V_07.zip

Edited by karimr

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Griga
select the SDT Actual entry on the left

Your XML contains the NIT, not the requested SDT. TransEdit reads the service names from the SDT.

 

Ok, you've added another (zipped) XML, but it looks like a part of the "SDT Other". Of course TrandEdit reads the "SDT Actual" when scanning, because it wants to know the service names of the *actual* satellite network.

Edited by Griga

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karimr
Your XML contains the NIT, not the requested SDT. TransEdit reads the service names from the SDT.

 

Just edited the post with that/\.

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karimr
Your XML contains the NIT, not the requested SDT. TransEdit reads the service names from the SDT.

 

Ok, you've added another (zipped) XML, but it looks like a part of the "SDT Other". Of course TrandEdit reads the "SDT Actual" when scanning, because it wants to know the service names of the *actual* satellite network.

 

I am attaching a Picture of the Analyze window, it does not have SDT Actual but has NIT Actual

Analyze.zip

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lgRich
Can Transedit work with Dish Network to pull down the channel names during Scan. I have trying but keep getting Service name and Number.

 

I have the exact same problem with Dish 110W and 119W.

 

I have already tried all transedit version from 3.0.1 to 3.1.1 and I have the same result.

 

When I Analyse some transponder I can see the correct provider name in the PAT PID 0 after 15 to 30 secondes.

 

When I scan the same transponder I always receive NAME = service XXXXX and Provider = Unknown.

 

I have also trying to increase the default value in Setting/Scanner2 without result.

 

Also:

Everything work very fine with Bell 91 and 82.

Everything work very fine with other software (MT) with 82/91/110/119.

I have trying to find some tool to be able to import my Channels.mdb to your Channels.dat without succes.

 

Please, if you need more info, just ask-me what you need, I am very patient, I try to fix-it until one week.

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Griga

The Dish Network doesn't broadcast the service names in a DVB compliant way. They should be in SDT actual, not in SDT other.

 

The scanner is designed to work straight forward. It reads what is necessary to read, nothing more, thus being very fast. To be true, I don't feel like messing this "clean" design up just because one satellite network isn't DVB compliant. Additionally reading the SDT other table would result in an overall speed reduction.

 

The analyzer is different. It is designed to read everything and to check everything against everything. Using SDT other table entries for the PAT/PMT of the actual transport stream is not really clean. It may cause wrong name assignments in rare cases. However, avoiding this in the analyzer would be quite difficult, because it is against its nature :bye:

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karimr
The Dish Network doesn't broadcast the service names in a DVB compliant way. They should be in SDT actual, not in SDT other.

 

The scanner is designed to work straight forward. It reads what is necessary to read, nothing more, thus being very fast. To be true, I don't feel like messing this "clean" design up just because one satellite network isn't DVB compliant. Additionally reading the SDT other table would result in an overall speed reduction.

 

The analyzer is different. It is designed to read everything and to check everything against everything. Using SDT other table entries for the PAT/PMT of the actual transport stream is not really clean. It may cause wrong name assignments in rare cases. However, avoiding this in the analyzer would be quite difficult, because it is against its nature :bye:

 

 

Thats is what I figured, I was able to find a way to import the channel info from mytheatre using mail merge in word.

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lgRich
The Dish Network doesn't broadcast the service names in a DVB compliant way. They should be in SDT actual, not in SDT other.

 

The scanner is designed to work straight forward. It reads what is necessary to read, nothing more, thus being very fast. To be true, I don't feel like messing this "clean" design up just because one satellite network isn't DVB compliant. Additionally reading the SDT other table would result in an overall speed reduction.

 

The analyzer is different. It is designed to read everything and to check everything against everything. Using SDT other table entries for the PAT/PMT of the actual transport stream is not really clean. It may cause wrong name assignments in rare cases. However, avoiding this in the analyzer would be quite difficult, because it is against its nature :tongue:

 

I do not want to begin a polemic, I want only to effectively use your product... Here in North America DishNetWork (110W and 119W) and BellExpressVue (91W and 82W) are those which are used by the magority of people... :bye:

 

May be one alternative will be to be able to import the channels.mdb like this:

________________________________________________________________

Import and Export

When the DVBViewer is closed, it stores the channel list in the file channels.dat, whereby it uses its own format. There are however also different formats, which can be imported or exported by clicking the two buttons at the bottom of the channel list window. They open a window for file selection. Use the dropdown list at the bottom of the window to select the desired file type resp. Format:

 MDB: Microsoft Acess® Database - a Microsoft® data base format that can be imported.

________________________________________________________________

 

Unfortunately this is not available! :)

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Derrick
I do not want to begin a polemic, I want only to effectively use your product... Here in North America DishNetWork (110W and 119W) and BellExpressVue (91W and 82W) are those which are used by the magority of people...

..maybe you should ask yourself what the letters DVB stand for in DVBViewer :)

 

Here in Europe we can't see these positions on the Clarke belt but after reading this (the specs migth no be totally up-to-date) I'm afraid that you have to live with the current situation for quite a while.. :bye:

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Griga
I do not want to begin a polemic, I want only to effectively use your product...

From the TransEdit terms of use:

 

TransEdit is a free add-on for purchasers of DVBViewer Pro exclusively. You use it at your own risk. It is provided "as is" without any warranty.

It is not a "product" that you've purchased. I don't get payed for programming and providing it here, just as little as Lars, who did some of the work. It's a spare time thing. If we would sell it, we would take $100 or more, all right? Because that's what others take for such a tool.

 

From the DVB specifications (ETSI EN 300 468 V1.7.1)

Any sections of the SDT which describe the actual TS (that is, the TS containing the SDT) shall have the table_id value 0x42 with the same table_id_extension (transport_stream_id) and with the same original_network_id. Any sections of an SDT which refer to a TS other than the actual TS shall take a table_id value of 0x46.

 

@Derrick: It's not DSS. The analyzer reads everything correctly. There is no SDT refering to the actual TS, that's all.

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lgRich

Like I said in my signature, English is not my main language, so I just want to try to clarify some things.

 

For me (and probably for most of peoples here) watching satellite TV it’s a hobby and I like this hobby.

After playing during the last year with an another product, I have decided to switch to DVBViewer because DVB is frequently up to date

and give me great results especially in HD (82W).

 

So I know that I have a lot more to learn about DVB and I want to learn and understand what I do.

______________________________

@ Griga and @ Derrick :Tank-you for all your technical explanation it’s very appreciate… Now I understand that TransEdit is’t not a part of DVBViewer.

______________________________

@ karimr: Did you find a way to transform channels.mdb to channels.dat?

 

I have passed many hours to find a solution on the web without success, but I continue to search.

Yesterday I have made a request at this site www.sharpc.com about this…

Next week I have planning to try to make a bridge with my VisualFoxpro tools box.

______________________________

@All_Members: All the suggestions are welcome to help and find a workaround about this problem:

 

Some more questions:

 

It-is appropriate to start another tread about DVBViewer that are non able to import channels.mdb like is stated in their help file?

 

It-is appropriate to start another tread about DVBViewer that have the same problem with the include satellite scanner?

 

In advance Tank you for your help and your comments.

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lar1r

Having the same problem here. Glad to know I am not the only one.

Right now with Dish there are some difficulties getting satellite reads.

Ordered a skystar2 because I thought the Twinhan was the problem.

 

Will keep checking sharpc.com to see if ChannelMaster ever gets DVBViewer added.

 

Too bad, I really liked the speed of Transedit :rolleyes: over MyTheatres updating.

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karimr

I was able to find a way but not a easy way, had to modify the mdb file and create a query to get all the data needed for the fields, then used mail merge to create the ini file to import into DVBViewer.

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Griga

Well, there might be a possibility to add a work-around for the Dish Network issue in TransEdit... e.g. a special line that has to be inserted manually in the transponder list INI file (by using a text editor), letting the TransEdit scanner read the SDT other table *instead of* SDT actual. Give me some time to think about it...

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Bobben

I'm using TransEdit more than DVBViewer. What I really miss is a view of acutal bitrate and not only the average bitrate (even on a encrypted channel). It would

have been really nice if the max,min and acututal bitrates was listed in the TS Analyzer in addition to the average bitrate.

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Derrick

IMHO the bit rates are overestimated. I won't mind of course if the rate analysis could be switched like an old VU meter ;)

 

..if this is the moment to utter wishes I would like the possibility to generate transponder.inis from e.g. Lyngsat :rolleyes:

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Griga
the max,min and actual bitrates

We first need a definition: What is the max, min and actual bitrate? How shall it be measured, calculated and displayed? It always comes down to averaging over a time interval, because we are not dealing with analogue input, but with discrete data packets randomly distributed along the time axis. So which time interval? Which kind of average? A moving average? With how many data points? How much additional memory usage is acceptable for buffering floating point values? How can it be avoided that the intermittent output from the driver buffers tampers the results? How much "smoothing" is appropriate?

 

Answers please :rolleyes:

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Derrick

some late hour thoughts.. :rolleyes:

 

..rates have to be related to the nature of the different streams. For example it doesn't make sense to evaluted the TS_rate of layer2 audio although it might be vbr coded inside the audio frames. Video has to be related to frames or GOPs. If you take the frames, the peak comes down to the amount of data per 40 ms (PAL). That would be roughly the numper of video ts_packets between payload start indicators..

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Griga
Video has to be related to frames or GOPs.

That's true, but there is one thing you can be sure about: I will not let the analyzer unpack the streams and look for GOPs, frames etc. - that's definitely beyond the scope of a tool that is designed to work on the TS packet and SI data level. So nobody should expect more than a TS data rate.

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Derrick

That's why I said that the rate hype is overestimated :rolleyes: ..but it should be quite easy to measures the rate/frame. Video frames normally begin with a payload start indicator. One PES_packet equals 1 frame. The frame size is not indicated because it's length can be > 16bit. The integration interval could be a multiple of 40 ms..

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lgRich
Update: TransEdit 3.1.2.

 

 

- Work-around for the EchoStar / Dish Network issue: Service names are broadcasted in the wrong table. Do the following:

 

- Open the EchoStar transponder list with a text editor

- Insert SDTO=1 as a new line in the [sATTYPE] section. This will let TransEdit read the SDT other table instead of SDT actual (hopefully... untested. No broadcaster on the main European satellite positions does such a mess).

- Save the tweaked transponder list to the TransEdit configuration folder\Transponders (see Info Menu -> Configuration Folder).

 

Life could be comfortable and easy if all broadcasters would follow the DVB specs... :radscorpion:

 

I have modified the 2 transponders list according to your instructions and unfortunately this new version don’t fix the problem.

 

Same result then before. :)

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karimr
I have modified the 2 transponders list according to your instructions and unfortunately this new version don’t fix the problem.

 

Same result then before. :radscorpion:

 

Same Here, one suggestion could we get the name info from PAT, that is where other programs get the info from I think.

 

I can provide the Analyze XML from the whole transponder if you need.

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Griga
could we get the name info from PAT,

There are no service names in the PAT, only Service ID -> PMT PID assignments.

 

Well, I can't test it, so it's hard to make it work. Here in Europe I don't get a single service name on four satellite positions with SDTO activated, so it does something... please test it with some other satellite position, like Bell 91, that provide service names in the usual way - you should get no service names at all after correctly inserting SDTO=1 in the [sATTYPE] section of the according transponder list.

 

I already have the SDT other XML file from karimir, that should be enough. I'll check the code again...

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