H.264 Kit discussion

June 26, 2006

Original by Derrick

- Elecard AVC/H.264 Decoder Pack (@Derrick: this is a DirectShow filter, unlike the Elecard AVC PlugIn for MPEG Player)

Thx, apparently I didn't know the difference. The performance seems to be the same, though I'll have to run some tests on my dual core. Though, no mainconcept watermark

-

June 26, 2006

Original by mcwebster

Tried Mr Bun's recommendations, regarding codecs, worked fine, thanks for that. Had the same problem though as remlap with black bar on the right. But, oh my is it processor hungry, has anyone out there actually got a system it works smoothly on, if so what is the spec?

June 26, 2006

Original by FedMond21

I have got it almost fluent, just a little too slow, no black bars

system is: new pentium "budget" dual core D805 +SS2+ NVidia 6600GT

i use: DVBViewer + Kit + cyberlink H264 from latest PowerDvd 7 deluxe

by the way with this setup TPS and sky italy demos are perfect

June 26, 2006

Original by klaymen

Hi all!

I'm new in this forum (so first hello all ) and also to DVBViewer which I just purchased last week. Also it's just a few days I got a sat card in my PC (a Hauppauge Nova-S+, the SS2 was not available in shops here in Switzerland). Anyway, it's working fine technically. What I'm really looking forward to is the BBC-transmission of Planet Earth scheduled for next Saturday (note: does anybody know the precise time schedule? Will it be repeated several times over the day)?

Anyway, I still got technical problems. I downloaded the latest DVBViewer Pro plus the 264 kit, also GraphEdit, the graph plugin, and besides I also installed MPC. As AVC codec I got the one from Cyberlink PDVD7 (also CoreAVC, but that doesn't work with BBC transmissions). My system is an AMD X2 4200+ with 2GB RAM.

I tried the following HD channels with the following results:

Astra1 Canal+ HD demo (12581V, 1440x1080, profil_idc 34 <unknown>, AC3/2 384kbit/s): perfect and smooth playback, live as well as from recorded ts-file. CPU load is about 10% with both codecs (CoreAVC slightly higher I had the impression). Astonishing quality :-)

Astra1 Astra promo (12168V, 1920x1088, profil_idc=11 <unknown>, AC3 256kbit/s): same as above, just perfect, works with both codecs

Astra3 HD5 promo (10758V, 1920x1088, profil_idc=27 <unknown>, AC3 256kbit/s): once again, just breathtaking

BUT:

Astra2 BBC promo (10847V, 1440x1088, high profile): I only get audio live. Yes, I did create a dvbsource.ini with the Ignore264...line, I put the file in the DVBViewer directory as well as into the plugin one (usermode.ini contains usermode=0), needs it be put at some other location? I also registered Pushsource_h264.ax. No way, I only get audio... what I did though was recording the transmission blindly into a .ts file, and *then* I could view that one with TSPlayer. Just in no way to do it live... it must be the timestamp problem though.

I could live with had, as long as I can record.... unfortunately playback is not smooth, as reported by others. Both CPU cores go up to about 85-95% (hell, is it so much hungy that "normal" AVC??), and it just isn't smooth. I did also try MPC as somebody reported smooth playback there (I needed to unregister CoreAVC for that though, foudn no other way to deactivate it within MPC). What did you mean by using a "standard renderer" and not VMR7 etc? I think th "options" menu, "Playback" and then "Output", there I have "System default" checked. Looks jerky, no change whether I select Overlay, VMR7, or anything else... Am I missing something? In PowerDVD I can't play it back, probably due to the timestamp problem.

Is there any way (or will be in the near future) to "fix" these timestamps in a recorded .ts file so it can be used by other players like PowerDVD or software like ProjectX sometime as well?

Sorry if these questions sound stupid, but I really didn't find answers to it.

Note: I also checked 12032H on Astra-3 (1920x1088, main profile). It's the worst of all, bad sound and jerky video, live and on playback. But maybe this is no really working transmission anyway?

And one final question: I'm pretty sure of the answer, but prefer to ask: If I just record the PlanetEarth transmission as ts file, I just be able to watch it from there at some later point with a better codec? I mean, the ts file just records anything it gets, and even without any AVC codecs installed, the file could later on be used, right? Then this takes away some time pressure for me The BBC promo for PlanetEarth is breathtaking btw!!

Thanks by the way for the wonderful program!

PS: I also tried to download the Elecard demo codec... no smooth playback, plus with it installed, the other recorded tc files (from the other HD broadcasts( were messed within TSPlayer, some strange interlacing problem I guess. I had to deinstall it again.

June 26, 2006

Original by Griga

Astra2 BBC promo (10847V, 1440x1088, high profile):

and *then* I could view that one with TSPlayer.

Seems you are using a DVBViewer version without the high profile fix.

DVBViewer Pro 3.2.6 doesn't contain it for sure. Dunno if the latest DVBViewer Pro Beta from the members area, beta section already does... try.

Additionally, there is a DVBViewer GE test version available that should be able to handle high profile H.264 correctly. Install DVBViewer GE 1.9.4 (uninstalling DVBViewer Pro is not necessary, but don't mix them up), and replace DVBViewer.exe by the 1.9.5.3 test version from the beta section. Delete the Deutsch.lng file for an English UI.

June 26, 2006

Original by mighty

And one final question: I'm pretty sure of the answer, but prefer to ask: If I just record the PlanetEarth transmission as ts file, I just be able to watch it from there at some later point with a better codec? I mean, the ts file just records anything it gets, and even without any AVC codecs installed, the file could later on be used, right? Then this takes away some time pressure for me The BBC promo for PlanetEarth is breathtaking btw!!

Sure. You can record it even if your pc can't handle H.264, then watch it later on time (this time you'll need avc codecs tho ).

Btw, that's what I'm doing: saving BBC TS file for a CoreAVC with MBAFF support!

June 26, 2006

Original by Klaymen

Astra2 BBC promo (10847V, 1440x1088, high profile):

and *then* I could view that one with TSPlayer.

Seems you are using a DVBViewer version without the high profile fix.

DVBViewer Pro 3.2.6 doesn't contain it for sure. Dunno if the latest DVBViewer Pro Beta from the members area, beta section already does... try.

Additionally, there is a DVBViewer GE test version available that should be able to handle high profile H.264 correctly. Install DVBViewer GE 1.9.4 (uninstalling DVBViewer Pro is not necessary, but don't mix them up), and replace DVBViewer.exe by the 1.9.5.3 test version from the beta section. Delete the Deutsch.lng file for an English UI.

Thanks, that solved my problem partly... with the Pro Beta as well as with the 1.9.5.3 GE I'm able to open recorded ts files and play them back from within DVBViewer (stuttering though). Still I don't get a picture live... it only plays audio, doesn't even display correct resolution in the status line. But I can record it to a ts file and immediately afterwards (without leaving DVBViewer) load the just recorded file and play it back fine. Somehow I think sadwalk: the DVBSource.ini file is ignored, I tried to remove it completely and still DVBViewer can play back recorded files but no live display (it does create an empty DVBSource.ini though). I put the following into the DVBSource.ini:

[Params]
IgnoreH264PTS=1
H264VInfo=1

(Tried it with and w/o H264VInfo=1 line).

@mighty: As you plan to do the same I do... do you have any idea at what time next Saturday the PlanetEarth broadcast will be shown? I don't feel like sitting the whole day in front of the computer and wait for it....

PS: In the recorded broadcast from BBC I noted that the CPU doesn not always go up to 90% (it does at the start of the PlanetEarth demo, when turns over the waterfall); at other locations it's just around 40%, but still not really fluent. OK, it's not too bad, but the hdtv broadcasts on Astra1 and Astra3 are *much* more fluent (why does BBC use that damn MBAFF feature.... )

June 26, 2006

Original by Griga

Still I don't get a picture live... it only plays audio,

What does the DVBViewer Filter property page report when you try to play the live stream? See View -> Filters -> DVBSource. Attach a screenshot.

June 26, 2006

Original by Mr. Bun

I tried the following HD channels with the following results:

Astra1 Canal+ HD demo (12581V,

Astra1 Astra promo (12168V,

Astra3 HD5 promo (10758V,

Haven't tried them myself, but according to KingOfSat these are all MPEG2 not H.264/AVC. No wonder then, that the performance is so much better.

also checked 12032H on Astra-3

This OTOH *is* DVB-S H.264 (like the BBC).

Have you tried these H.264 samples from Pro7? How do they perform?

do you have any idea at what time next Saturday the Planetarth broadcast will be shown

Click (UK timezone, of course)

June 26, 2006

Original by klaymen

What does the DVBViewer Filter property page report when you try to play the live stream? See View -> Filters -> DVBSource. Attach a screenshot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I appended it to this message, also the properties it shows when playing back a just recorded ts file, and the GraphEdit output of the file. Yes, it seems to try to interpret the file as 720x576 (at 19Mbps...). The output id from the GE 1.9.5.3 version btw. GE Beta shows the same (3.4.9.261beta, ID:DVBSource 2.7.4.0). Note though that I only get this output if I first tune to a standard channel and then switch to the HD one. If I start directly from the HD channel, the first "Video:" line remains empty. I append this output as last picture below.

Haven't tried them myself, but according to KingOfSat these are all MPEG2 not H.264/AVC. No wonder then, that the performance is so much better.

Shame on me, you're right ... it's strange that H264Param does accept ts files from these transponders, but not from SDTV ts-files. I'm still amazed how good the quality is with mpg2 and a not higher bitrate than the BBC broadcasts. Well, too bad, then it really must be a performance problem. And I thought an X2 4200+ is fast enough

Maybe it's soon getting time for a new graphics card? I got an Asus Extreme N6600 Silencer now, not the GT version and not the fastest, fanless... but I could also put another Silencer into it, as I got an SLI chipset - but does that help for hardware acceleration (dual ALI graphics boards), or does it have to be a single fast one?

Thanks a lot for the time schedule, that's precisely what I looked for!

Klaymen

June 26, 2006

Original by Griga

Has the scanner detected the channel as H.264 transmisson? Select it in the DVBViewer GE 1.9.5.3 channellist and go to the Edit Tab. Check the Video Type. If it is not H.264, correct it.

Unfortunately I can only receive Astra 19° East. However, I will order a new dish (TechniSat Multytenne) that (hopefully) will enable Astra2 reception, so I can check these things myself.

June 26, 2006

Original by klaymen

Has the scanner detected the channel as H.264 transmisson? Select it in the DVBViewer GE 1.9.5.3 channellist and go to the Edit Tab. Check the Video Type. If it is not H.264, correct it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, you made my day... that was it, working like a charm now! I didn't notice there was this dropdown menu in the channellist (only in the GE version, the Pro Beta version doesn't contain that yet - but that's fine, I only need one program to do the job ). Now it's working perfectly.... a bit stuttering as mentioned, but working. Note that I still don't get a picture on Astra3 12032H, but that also made trouble at playback - and it doesn't really matter to me (out of interest, anybody succesfull with it?)

Have you tried these H.264 samples from Pro7? How do they perform?

Yes, I did already have those. They are shown very fluently, first of it (with the big truck) at a CPU load of 50-60%, the other one (with John Cleese) at a CPU load of 50-69%, varying over the clip of course and as the clips are short, it's hard to find out the max for sure. I'd estimate that the BBC clips need around twice the performance the Pro7 ones do (of course there's no soudn in the Pro7 ones, but that shouldn't eat too much performance away). Naturally there are also passages within the BBC transmission that eat less that 90%, but not much I think. Anyway, a ratio of 1:2 or maybe 1.5 is possible due to the MBAFF feature I imagine.

June 26, 2006

Original by Griga

I only need one program to do the job

I'm sure you can make it work in DVBViewer Pro Beta by exporting the channel as INI file (select it in DVBViewer GE and use the export button in the toolbar) and importing it in the DVBV Pro channelist window.

Anyway - I'd like to know wether the DVBViewer scanner is able to detect the H.264 stream or not. Did you scan the transponder recently, when the H.264 broadcast was already ongoing, or is it an old entry? Give it another try. If it can't, it would be good if Derrick could check the PMT.

June 26, 2006

Original by klaymen

I only need one program to do the job

I'm sure you can make it work in DVBViewer Pro Beta by exporting the channel as INI file (select it in DVBViewer GE and use the export button in the toolbar) and importing it in the DVBV Pro channelist window.

Anyway - I'd like to know wether the DVBViewer scanner is able to detect the H.264 stream or not. Did you scan the transponder recently, when the H.264 broadcast was already ongoing, or is it an old entry? Give it another try. If it can't, it would be good if Derrick could check the PMT.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I already had that idea and it worked... even simpler, I just copied the whole channels.dat from DVBViewer Pro Beta into the GE directory, modiefied the HD channel there, and copied the file back, and voilà

Hmm, I just tried scanning once more, and indeed the scan now works fine... even scans with the normal pro version (and then copied into the beta one) scan it correctly as h264 now. I don't know why my original scan (done a few days ago) didn't catch that. Maybe at the time I scanned it, nothing was broadcast on the channel or there was a gap in the transmission loop, I have no idea. Anyway, the bottom line is that it normally scans the channel fine as h264, but it seems it *can* happen it mis-recognizes it as mpeg2.

June 26, 2006

Original by Griga

but it seems it *can* happen it mis-recognizes it as mpeg2.

Maybe the stream wasn't flagged as H.264 then. The scanner reads the information from the PMT (the Program Map Table that is broadcasted for each service) and expects a specific stream ID for H.264. Sometimes test transmissions are not fully DVB compliant, however...

June 26, 2006

Original by Derrick

but it seems it *can* happen it mis-recognizes it as mpeg2.

I don't think so.. ..it's stable for quite a while now. Though there is something to mention. The pmt contains an entry for a mpeg audio channel but the stream is missing. Only ac-3 is present.

June 26, 2006

Original by Klaymen

Have you tried these H.264 samples from Pro7? How do they perform?

To round up the performance tests I could do, I turned my dish to Hotbird today (a bit tedious, HB is not visible from the spot I usually have it so it was necessary to move it around) and tried its 3 free AVC channels:

Sky Promo on 11996V: maxes at 60-70% CPU load (1920x1088, main profile)

arte HD on 10834V: about the same (1440x1088, high profile)

HD-Forum on 11240V: slightly less, maxes at 50-65% (1440x1088, high profile)

All three are shown very fluently. It's only the BBC channel that seems to eat *much* more performance on the Cyberlink decoder than all the other ones (goes up to 95-100% and still a bit jerky when there's a lot of movement going around, like bubbles in the water etc). And it seems it can't be the high profile or resolution of the BBC channel; according to H264ParamReader, the recordings I made from arte and HD-Forum are also high-profile and 1440x1088, like the BBC transmission (no BAFF though I imagine, mb_adaptive_frame_field_flag is 0 on both of them, but 1 for the BBC transmission).

June 26, 2006

Original by Griga

mb_adaptive_frame_field_flag is 0 on both of them, but 1 for the BBC transmission

Which means a single frame can be partly interlaced, partly non-interlaced (switching between frame and field macroblocks). H.264 is very flexible in this respect...

June 26, 2006

Original by zyknyp

Kleymen, I also suggest you try the new Nvidia driver, 91.28: it did actually improve the H.264 playback on my AGP 6600 (it was quite non-existant before).

June 26, 2006

Original by klaymen

Kleymen, I also suggest you try the new Nvidia driver, 91.28: it did actually improve the H.264 playback on my AGP 6600 (it was quite non-existant before).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, I'll try it tonight. BTW, what do I need to do to activate/deactivate hardware support using the Cyberlink codec? There is no such option in the property page of the codec (using Filtermanager). What I tried until now was setting this option within the PowerDVD application itself, hoping it will store it in the registry for the codec, but couldn't find any difference until now (but that was still with older drivers of course). Does changing this flag within PowerDVD influence playback in TSPlayer or even live from DVBViewer as well?

June 26, 2006

Original by Zyknyp

Kleymen, I also suggest you try the new Nvidia driver, 91.28: it did actually improve the H.264 playback on my AGP 6600 (it was quite non-existant before).

Thanks, I'll try it tonight. BTW, what do I need to do to activate/deactivate hardware support using the Cyberlink codec? There is no such option in the property page of the codec (using Filtermanager). What I tried until now was setting this option within the PowerDVD application itself, hoping it will store it in the registry for the codec, but couldn't find any difference until now (but that was still with older drivers of course). Does changing this flag within PowerDVD influence playback in TSPlayer or even live from DVBViewer as well?

If you're talking about PowerDVD7, there's no support for H.264 HW acceleration in the codec, yet: Cyberlink has announced that they'll publish ex-packs for ATI and for Nvidia cards adding the HW support for H.264 later this year (probably in the next few months).

On the other hand, there's already a special version of PowerDVD6 that does support H.264 HW acceleration for Nvidia cards, but costs another hefty 50$, here: http://www.cyberlink.com/oem/nVidia/0602/enu/index.jsp

June 26, 2006

Original by klaymen

If you're talking about PowerDVD7, there's no support for H.264 HW acceleration in the codec, yet: Cyberlink has announced that they'll publish ex-packs for ATI and for Nvidia cards adding the HW support for H.264 later this year (probably in the next few months).
On the other hand, there's already a special version of PowerDVD6 that does support H.264 HW acceleration for Nvidia cards, but costs another hefty 50$, here: http://www.cyberlink.com/oem/nVidia/0602/enu/index.jsp

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm, it doesn't have to be PDVD7, but it must support the mbaff feature. Which decoder do you use for the BBC transmissions? Also I don't feel like paying another 50$ unless I know it will do the job; additionally I'd prefer to spend the money for the CoreAVC one as soon as it supports MBAFF.

June 26, 2006

Original by Zyknyp

I upgraded my drivers now, and as you said, it doesn't show much performance difference. I also tried the Moonlight codec that comes with the Cyberlink PowerEncoder (1.00.1206), but this one can't handle MBAFF (at least it remains black with the BBC videos).

One thing I noticed though, maybe due to the driver upgrade, but I'm not sure. If I change from Overlay to VMR7 as renderer (in TSPlayer), the movement seemed to become less jerky (not too far from being fine, but not yet completely there unfortunately). At the same time the CPU load seemed to go slightly down. I append 2 pictures below (the first two ones); the first is in overlay mode, the second in VMR7 (watch the graph, not the final number). As mentioned, the difference is marginal. The video starts at the location of Planet-Earth where the shark jumps out of the sea.

To allow better comparison, I did the same with the Anixe-video (156MB) that is available on the net as test download (I don't have the link ready, it was mentioned somewhere in this thread I think), see the next 2 pictures. It seems that mainly the second core is less loaded.

and last but not least, the Pro7 demo file (Prosieben_Hd_20232012022006.ts) that can be downloaded as well (very short, so you can only see a narrow peak). It shows the same effect, but I have no space left to upload this as well. The heights of the peaks are like the ones in the anixe clip.

As mentioned, that's all on an AMD X2 4200+ (not overclocked) and a Silencer 6600 Asus graphicsboard (Nvidia), 2GB RAM.

June 26, 2006

Original by william

Newbie alert!

I'm having great difficulty finding the below mentioned H.264 kit (posted by Griga):

I've uploaded a H.264 Kit to the members area, beta section, that enables watching / recording and playback of H.264 HDTV test transmissions.

The kit contains:

- DVBViewer Filter 2.4.2 with an additional H.264 output pin.

- TSPlayer 1.6.1 with enabled H.264 TS file playback.

WHERE IN THE MEMBERS AREA IS IT?! WHY CAN'T I FIND IT?! WHAT'S GOING ON?!

Hope somebody can help me out.

Thanks,

Will

So anyway, I've just shopped around and discovered it's only available as an upgrade for the full purchased version of DVBViewer. That'll count me out then. Quack quack oops.

June 26, 2006

Original by neilka

As mentioned, that's all on an AMD X2 4200+ (not overclocked) and a Silencer 6600 Asus graphicsboard (Nvidia), 2GB RAM.

I have the same CPU but overclocked to 2.55MHz per core, and I can view live BBC HD more or less perfectly, so you might want to experiment with overclocking.

June 26, 2006

Original by Griga

WHERE IN THE MEMBERS AREA IS IT?!

Plugins Section, watch out for H... alphabetical order, you know.

WHY CAN'T I FIND IT?!

That's an interesting question. The reason may be physiological or psychological. You forgot to put on your glasses? Temporary blindness? Eye cataract? Something unconscious within you doesn't want the H.264 experience and rejects it? A childhood trauma concerning TV?

WHAT'S GOING ON?!

You've hit the caps lock key by accident, I guess...

June 26, 2006

Original by Nick [D]VB

ROFL!

Check you PM...

June 26, 2006

Original by Griga

Can you PM me

You should have received a PM. If you can't find it... well, see above.

June 26, 2006

Original by dirkv

First of all wanna say "Hi" as i'm new around here...so.... Hi...

I now "played" around with that whole h264 stuff for a week or so, and am actually pretty happy by now. With the CoreAVC i could get a almost smooth live playback on most of the h264 channels (including the bug with the split screen of course). Playback afterwards is just fine.

However there remains the issue with the BBC channel (what else...)

I cant get any live picture for it. So at first i thought its the thing with the h264 flag as described earlier. So i went and got me the latest GE Beta, scanned, and verified the h264 flag was there. Still no picture. So i record a litte and play it back with

a ) TSPlayer -> no picture, messed sound (coming to that in a sec)

b ) Media Player Classic -> picture ok, no sound at all (huh?)

As i'm already out of ideas at that point, now to the sound thing... I play the channel live with the normal Pro Version (not beta), i get a blue DD sign and a sound like a mixture of stuttering and slowmotion. I play it with the GE Beta, i get a red DD sign and the sound is just fine (excpet from one skip every 3-4 seconds, which i guess would go along with a video skip at that point if i could see any video).

I'm using a Single 3500+ AMD which can handle the other h264 just fine. So i'm really kinda clueless atm and would appreciate some ideas. I'm using the latest AC3 1.01a filter from here

dirk

June 26, 2006