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LiMiT

Subtitles has changed in v6.0.4?

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LiMiT

In v6.0.3 I was able to change/edit the display properties of the teletext subtitles (making the font larger, choosing font etc.). In v6.0.4 it seems that this is not possible any longer, or I haven't found a way to do this. Whatever I choose for font for the subs (ISDB, ATSC, SRT) it doesn't change on screen.

 

It seems it only gives me the default teletext font with default size.

 

Is there anyway to be able to change the font size etc. again in v6.0.4?

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Griga

Such questions are (at least partly) answered by the Change Log -> see Program Files\DVBViewer\docs\changelog_en.html. Open it in your browser, go to the 6.0.4 section and look for keywords like teletext, subtitles, subtitle options... maybe you will discover some more interesting things.

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LiMiT

Thank you for your reply, @Griga

 

I did read the readme, but missed the "Additionally the Subtitle Options have been generally reworked. They don't apply to teletext subtitles anymore (the corresponding settings are now completely covered by the Teletext Options).".

 

A sad day indeed as the possibility to change the teletext subs is great for smaller screens. I use DVBViewer in an old EEE PC (AIO) in my kitchen and used the teletext subtitle options to enlarge the font for better readability. I really hope that this will be brought back in a future version. I guess I'll have to revert back to v6.0.3.

 

Thank you for showing me the way, @Griga!

Edited by LiMiT

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bccrew
On 11/20/2017 at 6:53 PM, Griga said:

Such questions are (at least partly) answered by the Change Log -> see Program Files\DVBViewer\docs\changelog_en.html. Open it in your browser, go to the 6.0.4 section and look for keywords like teletext, subtitles, subtitle options... maybe you will discover some more interesting things.

 

Hello Griga,

 

The Teletext subtitles are now being displayed with a black box around them. My wife has difficulties reading the subtitles in 6.0.4 and the black bar is really annoying. Please bring back the functionality as in 6.0.3 where one could adjust the TT888 page subtitles font, size en shadings.

 

This is a rather dissappointing change, the first in many years I cannot support :(

 

As I'm not visually impaired but hearing impaired, I always loved the extra bit of control to change these settings.

 

 

Untitled.png

Edited by bccrew

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Griga
35 minutes ago, bccrew said:

The Teletext subtitles are now being displayed with a black box around them.

 

That's how the broadcaster wants them to be displayed.

 

Many broadcasters are using colours or the subtitle position to indicate who is speaking (quite important for the hearing impaired, as you will understand). Additionally the subtitles are now synchronized properly with video according to the broadcasted time stamps. This all didn't work with the previous method. That's why it has been changed.

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bccrew

Hi Griga,

 

I understand the idea behind the colors etc. I was just wondering why the 2 possibilities cannot stand next to each other? Can the synchronisation not be combined with changing the font etc.

 

The black bar is just annoying, that was the reason for me to not use the setopbox of my ISP but choose for a software solution :)

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bccrew

Griga,

 

Any way we can convince you or the devs to revert this partly? I really hope the option to change the TT subtitle font will be implemented again.

 

I do understand the sync issues but maybe they can be combined? It would keep me in line to update to the newest version.

 

Atm, it's holding me and LiMiT back to ugprade to 6.0.4

 

 

Thank in advance!

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bccrew

In addition I just wanted to inform you that some of the channels in Belgium don't have support for color codes so it's just all white text with a black box surrounding it.

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Griga

Thanks for feedback. I will have another look at it when development focuses again on DVBViewer. Currently the DVBViewer Media Server takes center.

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bccrew

Griga, sorry to ask another question here but did the MBit display of a stream also disappeared in the status bar?

 

I cannot find any changes regarding this in the Changes list of V6?

 

Did this get removed by accident when reworking the signal strength button?

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Griga
1 hour ago, bccrew said:

did the MBit display of a stream also disappeared in the status bar?

 

Here it is still visible.

 

Please note that it is only available when the DVBViewer Filter (DVB Source) is used as source filter - see Settings -> Filters.

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bccrew

Well, as a matter of fact I'm using DVBSource... I took the screenshot through RDP session so no audio state..

 

 

Untitled.png

Edited by bccrew

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Griga

Did you activate the support for visual impaired users on Options -> Extended?

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bccrew

Yes, unckecking this JAWS brought the Mbit indication back ;)

 

 

There seems to be a small typo though?

 

(JAWS scripts omly) shouldn't it be only?

Edited by bccrew

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Griga
21 hours ago, bccrew said:

There seems to be a small typo though?

 

Fixed, including the double acceleration key (visual for both checkboxes, so it doesn't work for the second).

 

Back to the original topic: I think teletext subs should have an adjustable background transparency.

 

Zwischenablage01.jpg

 

That can be achieved easily. However, it didn't even work in previous versions due o a bug, as I've just found out. Options -> Subtitles only allowed to switch background display on and off. The slider didn't take effect.

 

I've also tried outline style, but that doesn't look really good with the teletext subtitle output.

 

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Griga

P.S. Would you like to test the changes?

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bccrew

Griga,

 

The background transparancy looks neat. Can 0% also be applied?

 

What about changing the font? Still possible?

 

 

Send me a pm with a beta build to test if you want.

 

 

Happy New Year btw!  :)

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Griga

Happy new year! Check your PMs....

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bccrew

Hi Griga,

 

I have compared both versions (6.0.3.0 versus 6.0.4.3 beta)

 

I tried to reconstruct the same settings I am used to as in 6.0.3.0 with a normal Arial font of size 30.

 

 

6.0.3.0

2.PNG.a5665af1e687676d90971521773e49f4.PNG

 

6.0.4.3 beta

 

1.PNG.f9eab924f224d5c37a1fb6f98aedf8c7.PNG

 

 

 

While I respect that the creator of the TT subtitles places the subtitles wherever he/she want on the screen to avoid white text over a white/light background, the font seems to be rather squeezed horizontally. I have noticed this with every font I choose.

 

If you look at the screenshots, you can clearly see that the older "look" was better :) Don't you agree?

 

These are resized windows on my PC but imagine you view this on a +48" HDTV. The whitespace between all letters in 6.0.4.3 is doing something weird with my brain. It's harder to keep up with reading.

 

 

There's even a term specifying this: "Kerning"

 

https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/FAQ/Writer/FormattingText/The_space_between_the_letters_in_a_word_seems_just_a_bit_too_wide._It_would_look_better_if_that_space_is_being_reduced._How_can_I_achieve_this%3F

 

https://www.coverdesignstudio.com/kerning-leading-spacing-book-covers/

 

 

 

 

Edited by bccrew

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Griga
On 8.1.2018 at 10:31 PM, bccrew said:

the font seems to be rather squeezed horizontally. I have noticed this with every font I choose.

 

Mostly broadcasters use double heigth characters for teletext subtitles because normal height characters are too small. Since Windows does not provide characters with such a size DVBViewer creates them by stretching normal characters vertically.

 

DVBViewer 6.0.4 renders teletext subtitles in the same way as other teletext pages. Have a look at the teletext window or the OSD teletext for comparison. Please note that teletext is a very old system where each character occupies a fixed size box of a 40 columns x 24 rows grid, thus requiring a monospaced display. Double height characters occupy two vertically adjacent cells. Broadcasters rather should use the modern graphical DVB subtitles for better quality.

 

The previous way of rendering (up to 6.0.3) extracted the text from the teletext page and used the SRT subtitle output routine for always displaying the subtitles centered on the screen, thus disregarding the original size, position and colour. Additionally special characters from the teletext block graphics set were discarded, because they are not availabe in Windows fonts. A teletext renderer under Windows must be able to "paint" these characters without using a font.

 

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LiMiT

Thank you @Griga for visiting the subtitling again. Like @bccrew mentions, the ability to edit the fontsize of the subtitles is far more important to me than having the bleeding edge version.

 

If possible, could these two co-exist in DVBViewer, please? For me, the black background isn't an issue, but the size of the font...

Edited by LiMiT
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bccrew

I really was hoping that the new version of DVBViewer would integrate both methods of displaying TT888 fonts. The need for original TT colors was never really there. The spacing between the letters is just too disturbing. That's also the reason why I didn't like my original STB of my provider. No configuration options.. :(

 

On 1/10/2018 at 11:33 AM, Griga said:

The previous way of rendering (up to 6.0.3) extracted the text from the teletext page and used the SRT subtitle output routine for always displaying the subtitles centered on the screen, thus disregarding the original size, position and colour. Additionally special characters from the teletext block graphics set were discarded, because they are not availabe in Windows fonts. A teletext renderer under Windows must be able to "paint" these characters without using a font.

 

 

 

About the special symbols I understand that the 'music note' symbol is probably one of the symbols not available in every Windows font.

 

Isn't there a way of extracting the colors of the TT subtitle stream and add them to the SRT routine?

 

I know that SRT files do support colors?

 

http://www.visualsubsync.org/help/srt

 

1
00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,123
This is the first subtitle

2
00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,000
Another subtitle demonstrating tags:
<b>bold</b>, <i>italic</i>, <u>underlined</u>
<font color="#ff0000">red text</font>

 

 

 

So again, a cry for adding the old method again.. :(   We all know TT will once cease to exist and most providers will eventually switch to DVB subtitles or an alternative method. So I don't see why DVBViewer can support both methods until the end..  There weren't any users complaining about this right?

 

I see some changes about SRT handling in the changelog of 6.1.0.0 so the SRT routine is definitely still there? :)

 

@Griga @hackbart @LiMiT

Edited by bccrew

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bccrew

No answer? :(

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Griga

I don't know when I will find time for this topic again. There are a lot of other important things to do.

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bccrew

@Griga Is this still on the todo list for one of the next DVBViewer releases? What do you think?

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bccrew

@Griga Is this something that can be returned as a feature? I'm still on version 6.0.3.0  and if you look at the screenshots I posted here, you can understand it still looks awful to read Teletext subtitles for us with the newer versions.

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