madVR Renderer in DVBViewer (English)

[pankov]

=========================================================================

I'm starting this new topic about madVR usage in DVBViewer for all English speaking users like me that can't participate in the German topic.

Hopefully it'll get enough attention from both the developers of DVBViewer and madVR.

=========================================================================

 

and here my first two problems/questions:

 

1. I had to disable "delay playback start until render queue is full" in madVR's options so I can watch live TV. With it enabled the picture/audio continuously paused/played and never settled. When I looked at madVR's OSD it was the decoder queue that never filled. If I disable this option I get perfect playback for hours so there must be something wrong with the state of the graph (AFAIK madVR pauses the graph until the queue is full). Is this a known issue and is there any way to prevent it? If this is a limitation that can't be avoided is it possible that instead of disabling the option in madVR since I want it for playback in other cases DVBViewer uses madVR's control API and disables it only when watching live TV?

 

2. Is it possible to use madVR for both main channel and PiP and still keep Fullscreen Exclusive mode in madVR? I guess this will require not showing the PiP in a separate windows shown on top of the main video one but some kind of "internal overlay" ... or something like it. Is this something technically possible and is it planned for the future?

Edited July 7, 2015 by pankov

[nuts]

1. I think this option should be disabled for LiveTV and Video.

You need this option which cases?

You can try to increase the Buffer size in DVBSource, but imho this option should ne disabled especially for LiveTV.

 

2. Don't think this is possible. It's about PiP and exclusive mode works,

[pankov]

1. I do agree with you that for LiveTV it should be disabled especially when there can be inconsistencies in the stream (SatTV with reception issues due to weather) and that's why I asked if it's possible for DVBViewer to control/instruct madVR to disable this option only for liveTV.

For video playback it's useful sometime because it allows the user not to loose frames (dropped frames) after seeking.

This is not a major problem but since this option exists in madVR and madVR is usually used in other players and it's only LiveTV suffers I think this issue deserves to be addressed by DVBViewer's developers.

 

2. I do understand that it's currently not possible but the question is whether it can be done in the future because Exlusive mode is something very important for smooth playback (especially for multi-monitor systems) and is also the only possible way to get 10bit output from madVR.

[Tjod]

I don't think that the DVBViewer will change madVR settings in the foreseeable future.

 

In general I would not expect any madVR related charges in the DVBViewer besides, bug fixes in the near future (this year) long term I don't know.

(bug = behaviour not intended by the developer)

 

So you should focus on what is possible and try to make the best out of it.

[pankov]

I'm somewhat sad to read this.

I thought that the madVR integration was not an one off development but something that will evolve in the future and madVR will become the default/preferred renderer

 

So my only hope left is that madshi will have a look at this thread and hopefully do some workaround/fix for first topic.

Edited July 7, 2015 by pankov

[madshi]

The "delay playback" option is a nasty hack, and although it often works very well, in some situations it can produce problems. That's why I have it disabled by default. You can try adjusting the DVBViewer settings (as suggested by nuts) to see if that helps working around the issue. But other than that I don't have a quick fix for this.

 

Of course it would be "possible" to allow the DVBViewer to disable this option only when it needs to be disabled, but since the option is a hacky solution right now, anyway, I'm not sure whether it's worth the effort at this point. I have some ideas on how to maybe make this option more reliable in the future. So if DVBViewer now disables this option, later it would have to be reenabled. So that would require DVBViewer devs to do two changes: One now, and back later. So I think it's better to leave things simple for now.

 

PiP in FSE mode is difficult. Basically the PiP window would have to be drawn by using the madVR OSD interfaces. So the DVBViewer would have to render the frames first (by using the selected renderer), then copy the rendered frames back to system RAM, and then feed them to the madVR OSD interfaces. That would be a lot of work, and a very ugly solution. I don't think there's any hope the DVBViewer devs are going to invest that work. A better solution would be for madVR to support PiP itself natively somehow, but that's a feature *VERY* low on my priority list atm. Soooo many other things to do which I consider more important right now.

 

You may want to upgrade to Windows 10 when it's out. DWM/Aero has improved *A LOT* in Windows 8.1 compared to Windows 7. Many users have disabled FSE mode now in favor of using the "new windowed presentation path" (meaning "present several frames in advance" activated in the windowed mode settings) with DWM/Aero in Windows 8.1. Ok, FSE mode is still more reliable, and the only way to get 10bit output. But well, you'll have to live with this limitation for now. Sorry...

[pankov]

madshi,

thanks for the detailed explanations.

 

1. I've already disabled the "delay playback" option and as I mentioned before it's so important for me in video playback so I'll close this topic for now.

2. I expected that it won't be easy ... or even possible at all ... but you can never blame a man for dreaming

When Windows 10 is out I'll definitely give it a try

[blasgl]

I have been testing madVR on my Intel NUC with Windows 10 64 bit the past days and have some questions and comments. Would be happy if someone can share his experiences and/or answer the questions.

 

1. First to my general HTPC usage. I have set up my Intel NUC to output 1920x1080 50Hz at Full RGB. The signal goes through HDMI to my AVR and then it´s bypassed to my SONY TV. My TV is in "graphics mode" and seems able to accept Full RGB without trouble. I use DVBViewer and watch TV shows in 576i, 720p and 1080i.

I use the LAV decoder with DXVA copyback

 

With madVR I have tried to stay away from complicated stuff like monitor calibration, resolution changes or profiling for different video types. I just want to extract the maximum performance from the presentation options so I can use my preferred scaling algorithms (ATM Softcubic80 for both chroma and image)

 

2. I have mixed experiences with "FSE" when switching from a SD channel to a HD channel so I have to stick with windowed mode. In detail:

-In windowed mode that kind of switch (SD <-> HD) is made instantly without a glitch.

-In FSE with my TV set to 10bit output in madVR the switch seems to send a reset through the playback chain. My TV displays a message that it´s outputting 1080p and I see a black screen for around 10 seconds, then I get normal playback.

-In FSE with my TV set to 8bit output in madVR I see briefly the windows desktop, then a black screen for around 3 seconds, then I get normal playback.

I wonder why all this resetting is happening in FSE if I have fixed the output resolution and madVR is not supposed to change it.

And by the way, is there a way to turn off the "exclusive" message on the top left corner of the screen?

 

3. In this constellation who´s responsible for the de-interlacing of 576i and 1080i signals? The LAV decoder? madVR? the Intel driver with DXVA triggered by any of the two?

[madshi]

I'm not sure why SD <-> HD switching results in a display mode reset. Maybe DVBViewer is destroying and recreating madVR? That would explain the problem. I think there's an option somewhere in DVBViewer that enables/disables this destroying & recreating behaviour? But I'm not sure right now.

 

The "exclusive" message cannot be turned off atm, but it should also go away if the display mode isn't changed, anymore.

 

Deinterlacing is by default done by madVR. You can configure LAV to do YADIF deinterlacing, but that's probably lower quality compared to DXVA deinterlacing, at least for telecined film content.

[nuts]

Switching between SD (mpeg2) and HD (h.264) requires a "rebuild directshow filter graph" action (= destroying and recreating).

Edited December 17, 2015 by nuts

[Tjod]

If I'm right on a video codec change MPEG2 <> H.264 the graph is rebuild.

You can only change this for a channel change without video codec chage.

[blasgl]

The codec change is a sound explanation, question is now why is there such a big difference between a monitor set up as "8 bit" and "10 bit" capable.

 

For both "8 bit" and "10 bit" FSE variants, at the start of the DVBViewer the first change into FSE does not produce such hiccups, just a brief blank screen, then normal playback.

[madshi]

This kind of stuff is highly dependent on GPU and GPU drivers, too. Its faster with some GPUs, drivers and OSs than others. 10bit output mode is simply more complicated and shutting it down costs more time with some GPU drivers. Maybe that will improve with future driver versions. One question worth asking is whether 10bit is really all that helpful in your case. Only very few displays today can truely handle 10bit content. Most internally dither down to 8bit, anyway. I'd suggest that you compare both and check if you can see any difference. If not, just stick with 8bit output.

[pankov]

Tjod,

can you please remind me which was the option to disable the graph rebuilding?

[nuts]

http://en.DVBViewer.tv/wiki/Options_TV_Radio#Fast_Channel_Switching

[blasgl]

I do not think my TV is "10 bit" capable. And my eyes most definetely aren´t ... it´s just the big impact left me scratching my head. I guess I can even live with windowed mode at the expense of some performance.

 

Do I understand it right that the deinterlacing is ordered by madVR and done by DXVA, so I get the same deinterlacing quality as with EVR Standard/Custom)?

 

Thanks madshi for the great work put into the madVR. I just sometimes wished there was more official documentation regarding settings and different GPUs. At the moment it´s hard to plough through different forums and try to extract infos from partially outdated and/or contradictory posts. But I´ll get there some time...

[nuts]

Do I understand it right that the deinterlacing is ordered by madVR and done by DXVA, so I get the same deinterlacing quality as with EVR Standard/Custom)?

That's the way it should be.